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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jun 2000
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Hello Everyone,
I have a question with regard to the volume that a keyboard controller presents when connected as a MIDI input to BIAB or Real Band.
My controller is the Roland A-80 and it is about 15 years old. The keyboard is connected to the MIDI IN of a Roland SC-8850 which is connected to the computer via USB. The Controller then appears on the computer as SC-8850 MIDI IN which I then connect as MIDI IN to BIAB.
My problem is that the controller produces a volume level which is very significantly lower than a regular BIAB song file. So much so that “play-along” is not really feasible. The volume when normally playing the controller is also much less than that obtain by mouse clicking on the piano keys in BIAB. It does not matter if BIAB is set up with MME or ASIO, it’s the same issue.
The controller is set to a MIDI volume level of 127 which is as high as in allowed for the A80. I would note that this same situation happens for Real Band and also the softsynth SynthFont (which allows a MIDI input)
Do any of you have any suggestions for this issue. I hope it is a “pilot” error. I am concerned that the controller has gotten “tired” or something like that. Is this something that any of you have experienced?
Thanks so much
Fritz Klein
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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If you record the MIDI, what is the velocity getting recorded?
You can see it in the event list.
Are you familiar with how the four zones work on that board, and how the velocity curve is implemented for each zone?
What are you using as the soundsource in BiaB, the softsynth or the SC-8850?
Last edited by rharv; 03/29/11 09:20 AM.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Journeyman
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I have a Roland PC 180 controller and an SC 88. Sometimes my THRU volume is set too low or it's muted.
Percy
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Make sure you have ALL of the settings selected in: Opt/Pref/Recording Filter. Check your Opt/Pref/Arrange settings: "Normalize Midi Velocities" in there. I set mine to 78.
Trax
Last edited by Muzic Trax; 03/29/11 11:24 AM.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Apprentice
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Apprentice
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I was going to suggest checking the velocity of the recorded notes too. I had one keyboard/controller (an old Yamaha DX7) that would never output full velocity of 127, no matter how hard you hit it. In fact, I installed a ROM upgrade to fix that problem.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Thank you so much for your suggestions. I will look into each and get back with you.
Fritz
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Fritz,
You can also try the following:
Go to Options/Preferences/MIDI Options, then where you see an entry for BOOST MIDI Thru velocity, try entering a number like 40 or 50 to see if it will increase the keyboard volume. I'v tested this in in the past by lowering the THRU velocity within BIAB by entering a number like -30 to drop the volume.
Dave
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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To Dave R:
Thank you for your suggestion. That is exactly what I did and I put in a boost of 50 and that corrected things. I still have the impression that my A80 is very “stiff”. Don’t know if that’s they way it’s built or it’s just old.
To rharv:
I tried setting BIAB to record and tried to bring up the event list but either I did it wrong or there is some setting I need to change. I have the keyboard playing into BIAB all ok. I would really like to measure its output. Would you please outline the steps I need to go through to see my keyboard velocity on the events list?
Sound sound source has successfully been SynthFont, Coyote and direct to the SC-8850. The issue remains the same.
With regard to the zones on the A80, I am not that familiar with them. What I am using with the A80 is the factory presets.
To percy: My THRU volume to you mean the Preferences/Midi Options/Boost Thu velocity?
To Muzic Trax: I will check the rest of my settings more carefully.
To all:
Thanks so much…. If I can determine that the A80 is just stingy with output then with the boost idea, that solves the issue for now.
Does Real Band and Power Tracks have the same “boost” capability?
Fritz
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Journeyman
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Journeyman
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Quote:
To percy: My THRU volume to you mean the Preferences/Midi Options/Boost Thu velocity?
You adjust the THRU volume like the other instruments. Go to the volume spinner and double check the level. Additionally, in the Stylemaker, the Misc Style Settings also allows user input for the THRU part.
Percy
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
... I still have the impression that my A80 is very “stiff”. Don’t know if that’s they way it’s built or it’s just old...
Hi Fritz,
Check the documentation for that Controller and find out how to set the Touch to different levels. Also might be a setting asomewhere that affects the Velocity of each note that needs tweaking to match your chosen MIDI synth.
Most Controllers also have some sort of Factory Reset routine that restores all internal settings to the original state as shipped. Might be a good idea to perform that and start from there, if you then don't like the Velocity you get, which indeed can often sound like a Volume problem when set to extremes, then start experimenting with different Touch Curves that the Controller offers. There's more to that setting than just the feel of the keyboard, it often also affects the *punch* of each note. This can usually be set such that it might affect *either* extreme - setting the Touch to be too soft can result in the MIDI parts sounding like someone is constantly banging too hard on the Piano, for instance.
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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There are three things that affect volume in MIDI:
1) Velocity, how hard you press the keys
2) Continuous Controller 7 - track volume
3) Continuous Controller 11 - expression volume (used for dynamics)
You might want to see if cc7 is at 127 and cc11 is at 127 at the loudest part of the melody that you want to play.
I don't know if you have thought of this (excuse me if you have) or if you have that control on your MIDI input device, but it's worth investigating if you haven't already.
Notes ♫
Bob "Notes" Norton  Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I have PowerTracks 2011.
I was able to bring up the "MIDI Monitor" in PTracks and check the velocity of my controller as compared with clicking on the screen keyboard. The screen keyboard produces a constant MIDI velocity of 127. Playing normally on my controller produces an output of around 70 to 80. Pressing very hard on a key produces 110. So it looks like I need to look into the keyboard controller key press parameters as Mac and other suggest.
I see that BIAB has the MIDI through boost but I did not find that on either Real Band or PowerTracks is that correct? Is there a way to do that boost in these other two programs.
Many Thanks
Fritz
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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For PT and RB it is an extra step -
record track
select the track
right-click and 'select whole track'
Edit - change velocities
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Ir is very likely that if you set up your keyboard controller's Touch, which is really defining a Velocity Curve, that you will be able to use all programs without changing any other settings.
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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After getting into the A80, which I probably should have in the first place (but I learned a lot in this process), I was able to adjust the "Curve" and the "Scale" and thereby set the keyboard so that boost was not needed. I did think it strange that the default setting was so soft though. I did't expect to have to make special adjustments.
Thanks so much for those who commented and helped with my post.
Best Regards
Fritz Klein
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