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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2009
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Hi folks, I've been a musical theatre writer (bookwriter/lyricist) for 26 years, and I always secretly wanted to write music, but always felt too challenged. I made some progress in recent years with Ableton Live...now enter Band in a Box. I'm starting to find a workflow, so far so good. (BIAB, Audacity for vocals, Melodyne to fix vocals and change guitar lines etc.) Any comments about this track welcome. I know it has glitches,it's not meant as a demo, it's just me singing, it's just a first draft writing attempt. There will be many changes and refinements, so any critical comments welcome. There is a setup to the song at the link. One thing I know is that I want it to build up so that the peak is at the soldiers singing. (now it's before, then peters out) I kind of gave up, I'm no arranger, I need help getting it to build. http://snd.sc/eCD2u1Any comments welcome! Vincent
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2002
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Holy cow, is that BIAB on accompaniment? This is really a very unique application. Certainly should get an award for the most interesting use of BIAB as I have never heard BIAB used in this genre. A great effort on your part. Keep working on it as the results will be very interesting. 
BIAB – 2026, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, Motu Audio Express 6x6 - My SoundCloud.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2008
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Wow Vincent, this is really creative. If it were me, I'd bring up the rock band as the soldiers are marching and do a short loud instrumental break there before transitioning back into the next segment. Just a thought. Hey, keep working on it. I totally agree with Dan. Impressive.  Also post in the users showcase so every one will hear it. Good luck with it.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 63
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Thanks Dan, yes, people I'm showing it to keep asking: "You did this with WHAT programs??" I know a lot of people use Reaper etc... Melodyne works for me for now because it allows me to fix vocals, create harmonies, and change around the other BIAB realtrack instruments as well, then do a final mix adding reverb, EQ, etc there.
Sundance, thank you for your suggestion about an instrumental, you are exactly right. My next step, I think, is to get proper help for a vocal arrangement for those soldiers, with stronger chord support under, and then yes, thank you, a killer guitar solo as they march out would be perfect!
The thing I'm pleased about now is that I know I can generate a good solo in BIAB, and then pull it around in Melodyne, perhaps even having it approximate the chorus melody. I'm kind of excited about that, pulling the BIAB solo guitar line around the lead vocal for this track was a revelation to me... not rocket science, it just has to sound right. I wonder if it's too busy for some people's ears, if it distracts from the lead vocal at times?
Thanks for the great feedback, I'm seeking more as I create draft #2, and prep to demo with proper singers.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,697
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Quote:
One thing I know is that I want it to build up so that the peak is at the soldiers singing. (now it's before, then peters out) I kind of gave up, I'm no arranger, I need help getting it to build.
A most excellent effort Vincent.
Your problem with getting it to build is simply in the mix, all the elements are already there. Listen to some other rock operas carefully. My first impression is the vocals are a bit too hot during the peak parts and the drums are too low. Bring up the drums, lower the vocals and up the overall volume. That will punch it up quite a bit. Oh yeah, and bring up the guitar solo too. When a vocalist is singing with a guitar solo they are basically both at the same volume. Something else to allow for strong dynamics is to lower the overall level of the entire thing to create more headroom for the peaks. The quieter parts should be showing you a waveform of maybe 50% of the screen while the peaks would be using a compressor/limiter and be almost maxed out filling up that waveform window. You will hear this in the mixes of other recordings of this type of material or even in movie soundtracks. The difference between the overall volume of quiet passages and the peaks where the action is the loudest is very dramatic.
Overall this is a very creative use of Biab. Yet another rebuff to those who think it's just for jazzers. There have been several discussions over the last few years about using Melodyne to make a Real Track do exactly what you want and this is a good example of it.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jan 2006
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Best, Tom SmithWin10/64 • i7-8700K • 24 GB RAM BIAB 2026 • Reaper 7.57 • Izotope MPS AKG C1000S • IK iRig I/O Pro
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 63
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Thanks for the specifics, Jazzmammel Bob. I am going to try to redraft this song with the solo that Josie suggested,(and other changes from other feedback) and I will try to mix in the vocal lower, good ear, that is surely part of the problem, it's actually peaking a bit there, which is probably why I had to pull back most of the instuments, it sounded bombastic otherwise.
Being a rank newbie "mixer" I'm not quite sure how I'd do what you suggest in terms of the dynamics... i.e. squeeze the whole thing down overall, to allow for a bigger peak at the climax, correct? Makes total sense, but... right now, I have 19 tracks in Melodyne... It doesn't record mixer moves the way RB or other DAW's do, I don't THINK... If not, I guess I'd have to select most of each track and bring down the amplitude. I could try that. I guess that way, people kind of... have their speakers up a big louder from the beginning, and then kind of... get blasted a bit more on that one segment? I guess it's tricky, cuz if it gets louder significantly there, it really better sound good, right?
Thanks, Vincent
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jun 2005
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Quote:
I guess it's tricky, cuz if it gets louder significantly there, it really better sound good, right?
Yep, welcome to the world of mixing. You can't allow yourself to screw up the mix because you're insecure about your performance in the thing. We all have to resist that tendency because we're our own worst critics while others think we sound great. We're constantly comparing ourselves to the best in the field and we always come up short next to our favorite performers. You have to respect the audience, put yourself out front and mix accordingly. I can't tell you how many times I thought I sounded bad on a particular song at a gig yet someone comes up to me to tell me how much they liked what I just did. Am I going to say how badly I thought I played? Of course not, that's insulting I say thanks I really appreciate that and work it out on my own.
The hard work part of this starts with you moving all 19 tracks from Melodyne into Real Band where there are all the tools for a proper mix. Yes, it's tedious. This is the "glamour" part of music production. Not. You should be able to create submixes to cut down on the clutter and only have to work with 5 or 6 tracks and mix those into your final one. There are whole books written about this so I'm not going to go into a lot of instructions here just keep reading and doing. What you've done so far is a decent first effort, you're on the right track.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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Update to Build 10 of RealBand® 2026 for Windows®!
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