PG Music Home Forums General Discussion Off-Topic SIBELIUS 7

you know how most DAW guys would suggest an extra hard drive to deal with all the busy traffic on your PC......well would that extra HD be required if i installed SIBELIUS 7?

question, does SIBELIUS 7 NEED an extra HD to ensure good work flow the way SONAR x1 would?

thanks guys

John

I am still on a previous version of Sibelius, but I don't need an extra hard drive to run it at all, matter of fact, it lives and works well frm the internal C: drive on my rather long in the tooth XP driven laptop. That includes their "lite" version of the software synthesizer.

From the Sibelius website:

Quote:

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Minimum requirements for Sibelius 7 software only

Windows: Windows Vista SP2 with the Platform Update Pack or later, Windows 7 SP1 or later, 1 GB+ RAM, 750 MB hard disk space, DVD-ROM drive

Mac: Mac OS X 10.6.7 or later, Mac OS X 10.7, 1 GB+ RAM, 750 MB hard disk space, DVD-ROM drive

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I don't think you would have to be concerned about running Sibelius 7 from the internal drive at all. It is not multitracking audio.


--Mac

HI Vishnu, I have only used up to Sibelius 5, not further. I think its really expenjsive for what it does and quite limited on playback.
I use Cubase and the notation options are just as powerfui - can handle a full score, any clef, etc.
If you want to hear back what you have written you get the advantage of a full sequencer at your disposal and a very powerful one. When it comes ot MIDI there are things that Cubase can do to help you make your samples more expressive that Sibelius can never dream of doing. You can get at each single note etc. There is also the market in VSTs things like Garritan Stradivarious with cotrol of vibrato.
Your future needs will be well catered for if you want ot expand your notating you can.

Oh and its cheaper..

Just a thought.....


Zero

Sibelius is really only concerned with Chart Creation, the kind of notation we used to have to spend big money hiring skilled copyists to create by hand. Sibelius does its task very well indeed. There is a learning curve, just as there is with *any* software worth purchasing and using.

Cubase, on the other hand, is a *Performance* oriented recording software and as such is better at the playback of your creations. As a Music Notation Editor, however, it falls far behind what Sibelius can provide.

All depends upon what you need to do. For example, if all you need is a Fake Chart to pass out to other musicians, DAW programs like Cubase or Realband, etc. that include some modicum of notation and printing, might be enough. Band in a Box also.

But if you are needing to create charts from scores, charts for publishing or just in need of charts that you can pass out to a big band or orchestra and those charts must be able to include any and all of the professional music copyists' skills, then a fullblown Notation Editor software becomes the obvious choice. These won't necessarily be too involved with playing back your charts with nuance, that part is really just there so you can audition and check your work, edit out any glaring mistakes and the like. And in that regard, it is very powerful indeed.


--Mac

Mac I am wondering what SIbelius can do that Cubase cant? Its fine that we disagree but I not sure what your referrring to? Cdubase IMO is very poweferful as a notation software.

I use Sonar X1 on a single HD with no problems. It's a 1TB WD Caviar Black.

Well Mac I checked out the videos, it certainly looks very impressive. I have done a lot of scoring in my time, I used to use Sibelius 5, it was an easy to use interface, now it looks even better - very impressive. But I switched back to Cubase for reasons below.
The thing that I found I needed a sequencer for was for sounds - demos. For my ears a particular problem was violin articulations, everywhere I went I found the same articulations (more or less). I bought GPO), East West Platinium strings, Vienna Strings and even Garritan Stradivarious. I helped with the Gofrilla Cello. Both the last instruments give you pretty good control over vibrato.
Getting an authentic line for strings, or for that matter any instrument, required so much tweaking, sometimes more than one channel. Obviously real lines feature all sorts of embrouchure, articulations, dynamics and the like, the way woodwinds pop and click, the effect of embrouchure on a note (Chet Baker - compared to Purcell's trumpet voluntary) sound like different instruments. Simply loading a particular articulation into one channel was not hacking it for me.

I needed two things in particular. Firstly Display quantise, this is where the score shows something readable and the performance is allowed nuances that are not scored)
Secondly to get at every signel note in a line and control whether it was staccato (preferably with a range of tpes); legato, (again so many different legato types) or any other articulation the instrument could command - all in one channel.

I also found I needed to control vibrato closely (pich shift) - as you know such a personal thing.

Vibrato control is so problematic with many of the orchestral libraries as the samples already have it in them - as they should i suppose. Simply loading "First Violins Marcato" into channel 1, or something was not hacking it, for my ears.

I also needed to get at any individual note and sculpt it as I required. OK maybe I demanded too much! I know!

Using such methods I created emulations of many scores and eventualy got pretty satisfactory results. I remember loading Debussys Nuages into Audio and then emulating every note for a score. The process was challenging and the Cubase tools (from version 5) were only just making it in this respect ("note expression" was buggy) but it WAS possible just in Cubase to get things authetic.

Having listened to Sibelius demo the playback, though better than Sibelius 5, and even relatively good, is still wooden to my ears. I heard no mention of close tweak control in the videos although I am sure there must be a little functionality.


Tangent?
So, you may be thinking this is all a tangent - Sibelius is designed as a NOTATION software not really a PLAYBACK device. True. But I find that working on a score and constantly hearing a wooden version of what you are inspired to create.. well I could call it 'damaging'. The whole techniocal process is so much clutter in between you and the art. (Thats why I went to BIAB).

A few years agao I concluded, reluctatly that the software, whatever software, (I checked out the very best, very very carefully) was not up to the job. I dropped scoring in this way and took up the piano and BIAB - whic is always such a gas!

Conclusion (IMO only)
I think Sibelius wins hands down on the interface front, if thats all you need Vishnu go for it. If you want to get an accurate emulation then display quantise and note expression are essential tools plus the power of a sequencer. I notice that Sibelius can 'rewire' to Logic, I dont know about Cubase.



Zero


Addendum - what Cubase can do:

As an addendum you will find that Cuvase score is pretty powerful and can handle full scores very well. It has all the symbols you need for anything up to a full orchestral score, various fonts, good layout facilities, working with parts in any clef (not just bass and treble) transposing spacing and layout is a doddle.
Display quantize (explained above) is fantastic, Audio lines (say a trumpet solo) can be translated into notes (using a melodyne like feature which can pitch tweak too). Yopu could play one line in and then change the notes and then play back the Audio corrected and see the MIDI/ Notation line.

Convolution reverb is available to help all the sounds, a full mixer, limitless channels, excellent parametric eq, note expression down to minute details, the ability to load different arcitulations into the same channel/track. Limitless orchestral support (Via add on packages like East West stuff, Vienna Symphonic, Garritan and manyt others) including Halion Orchestra 60 day free trial.

All this in 64 bit (even where the library is 32 bit via Jbridge).

I simply don't know how strong Sibelius is on these features

From Steinberg's site:

http://www.steinberg.net/en/products/cubase/cubase6_details.html

Score Editor

The Score Editor is a full notation environment completely integrated within Cubase and lets you view your music in the form of scores, with full support for just about all symbol, display and editing options that this entails. With support for lyrics and remarks as well as drum notes, guitar tablature and lead sheets, the Cubase Score Editor includes hundreds of professional notation symbols: simply select the tools needed to create fully professional score layouts for others including soloists, orchestras and choirs. Thanks to the full Music XML Import / Export support, even exchanging scores with other notation packages is only a matter of seconds. In addition, the Expression Maps of the VST Expression 2 set have been engineered to offer new levels of speed and intuitiveness when working with large sample libraries by introducing dynamic support for articulations and expressive notation that is automatically interpreted by a VST instrument. Cubase 6 features an unparalleled combination of a fully featured composition, recording and mixing environment with comprehensive scoring features — ideal for composers.

"With Cubase, composers get a complete software notation program for professional score layouts. MIDI notes being played are translated directly to musical notation, resulting in a score that can be edited using more than 100 professional notation symbols. On the other hand, all playing instructions noted in the Score Editor are converted directly into MIDI parameters that can trigger any VST instrument in real time. A special highlight for all composers is VST Expression 2, delivering an innovative solution for working with different instrumental articulations directly in the Key and Score Editor. But that’s not all, in Cubase 6 Note Expression is the revolutionary approach to create and edit multiple controller values in a single graphical interface, directly on the note they belong to.
Thanks to the integrated HALion Sonic SE VSTi workstation, you have hundreds of sounds at your fingertips, including a slew of high-quality orchestral sounds played in different styles — perfectly complementing the new VST Expression functions. On top of this, you also get a fully functional 60-day trial version of the HALion Symphonic Orchestra VST Sound Instrument Set for HALion Sonic SE and HALion Sonic. It provides a wealth of acoustic orchestral instruments with an inexhaustible range of articulations and expressive playing techniques at their best. Existing HSO users will be excited to find out that they can use HALion Symphonic Orchestra VST Sound Instrument Set with their existing license as a free update right away! And all Cubase 6 customers can upgrade the trial version of the HSO VST Sound Instrument Set exclusively online to a permanent license at a very special price.
Composers working with comprehensive orchestra libraries benefit greatly from the native 64-bit support under Windows 7 and Mac OS X 10.6 so that Cubase can theoretically address up to one terabyte of RAM — providing space for more samples and allowing you to work more efficiently.
Cubase 6 is the perfect solution for film score composers. Video files in QuickTime format can be displayed in a freely scalable video window within Cubase or, alternatively, can be played back on an external monitor using the appropriate video hardware (including HD formats). The individual video frames are displayed as thumbnails in a video track, making it a whole lot easier to compose in sync with individual frames. Basic editing functionality, such as edit, cut and paste, are also readily available."

horses for courses...

Zero

I started my arranging endeavors before there were any computers to do any of it at all, as a consequence, I learned how to write it with the pencil on the staff and hear it at the same time, in my head. Old Skool.

Isn't it wonderful that we have all these different choices of tools? Something to suit everyone.


--Mac

Maybe manuscript, ears and imagination is best at the end of the day Mac!