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The Gibson plant in Nashville was raided in November 2009 for possible violations of the Lacey Act, a federal environmental law that prohibits importing endangered species. Federal agents seized materials, files and computers from the Nashville plant on allegations that a rare endangered ebony wood from Madagascar was illegally used at the factory. No charges were ever filed. This time it was the Memphis Plant...nice guitars "through the glass darkly"!! http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2011/aug/24/federal-agents-search-gibson-guitar-factory-memphi/Ever since I bought that first "L-5" from the Gibson Rep in Chicago, Circa 1958... I've wanted to tour that place!! Exotics or not they delayed the tourist for a while...again!  
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Goodness gracious!! Don't the Feds have anything better to do than harass one of the oldest American companies?
Of course not.
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And then in the next breath, let's hear them criticize businesses who leave for foreign shores. I bet none of them have ever had to play a Japanese Telecaster or a Mexican Strat....
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I am interested to hear the outcome of this. I am not yet to cynical to believe that the Feds would raid the company without pretty good indication that something illegal was going on. We all have to play by the rules. And while I am pro-american work, I do have a Mexican Stat (due to the lower cost) which plays very nice.
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The imported instruments coming in to the US now are FAR superior to what they were in the past and are a great bang for the buck. But they generally don’t hold a candle to their American counterparts, especially in terms of hardware, finish and playability.
Companies like Gibson, Martin and Fender are a part of America’s musical history. To harass them is unconscienable! If there’s problems with some of the woods they’re using, the Feds, (sic – aghhh – petewy), should meet with them and figure out alternatives. Not try to shut them down!
As usual, the Feds are idiots who are more concerned with international law than they are about preserving American companies and jobs, …… not to mention our musical heritage.
It’s no wonder so many folks are turning on the Feds. But it’s definitely more PC and EC to take jobs from Americans and wipe out companies who’ve been around almost as long as the US in order to appease international pressure. It makes us look good at the UN.
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Golly...
Am I too old to join the Fish & Wildlife Agency...
I'm all for fishing, hunting and raiding Gibson Guitar Emporiums....
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Quote:
I'm all for fishing, hunting and raiding Gibson Guitar Emporiums....
Fishing … count me in, let’s go catch something and cook it up! Hunting, … you go kill it and clean it, then I’ll cook it and we’ll both eat!  (shucks, ...... I'll even do the dishes!)
“raiding Gibson Guitar Emporiums”, …… this part I didn’t get. (Unless of course you meant it would be nice to be able to go in and pick out what you want).
Last edited by bobcflatpicker; 08/24/11 06:11 PM.
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"Put your hands up and step away from the table saw!" Your Imperial Federal Government at work, under the control of an anti-capitalist administration.
Maybe laws concerning rare and/or endangered resources are a good thing, but this could--and should--have been handled a lot differently.
Richard
Note: Edited to remove deliberately inflammatory phraseology. I can always put it back in later.
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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Hopefully this is nothing to fret about, and they will get over the bridge. They need to use their head and stay in tune with the world. I just really hope the see the keys to success and not string up along.
And it's late and I am out of puns.... maybe I can pickup in the morning....
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Okay, ……, I’m gonna use tongue PARTIALLY in cheek for this comment. Quote:
Maybe laws concerning rare and/or endangered resources are a good thing
I can’t think of a better way to “preserve” exotic woods than to put them in a fine handcrafted instrument. 
(Now, ……, taking the tongue out of the cheek). Considering that many, (or most), of these trees are burned to the ground to make room for corn, potatoes, soybeans or livestock, ………, instead of WASTING them by burning them, cut them and pay the locals, so the woods can at least be used in a respectful manner.
So if the choice is between having a tree be a pile of ashes on the forest floor, or fretboards for a 1,000 Gibson L-5’s, ……, let’s see, ….., let me think about it, ……, I’ll take 1,000 L-5’s! 
Shucks, ……, just give me one L-5 over a pile of ashes. 
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Quote:
Fishing … count me in, let’s go catch something and cook it up! Hunting, … you go kill it and clean it, then I’ll cook it and we’ll both eat! (shucks, ...... I'll even do the dishes!)
I have some great Madagascar ebony that burns great for a barbecue...
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Quote:
Maybe laws concerning rare and/or endangered resources are a good thing, but this could--and should--have been handled a lot differently.
The endangered species I am more worried about is the musicians who play original music......
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Perhaps the Feds were looking for an "axe" wielding employee................
Cheers,
Keith
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A police raid, in the US, is not a conviction.
It takes the court of law and time to sort that out.
And I'm fairly certain that Gibson has already retained rather substantial talent.
The kind of legal beagles who pronounce the word, "contest" with the accent on the last syllable...
Remeber, it ain't over 'til its over.
Innocent until proven guilty, not guilty by accusation.
Speaking of fishing expediions...
--Mac
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I'm sure Gibson will make another goofy signature model named after this.
The Gibson Raid, little handcuff tuning keys and Miranda rights inlayed on the fretboard.
You have the right to play with a pick.
Anything you play or can't play will be held against you in a club or bar.
You have the right to speak to a roady.
If you cannot afford a roady, one will be paroled for you.
Do you understand these lyrics as they have been sung to you?
Last edited by redguitars; 08/25/11 09:14 AM.
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Quote:
You have the right to play with a pick.
Anything you play or can't play will be held against you in a club or bar.
You have the right to speak to a roady.
If you cannot afford a roady, one will be paroled for you.
Do you understand these lyrics as they have been sung to you?
And those would be the Carmen Miranda rights?
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Quote:
Fishing … count me in, let’s go catch something and cook it up!
I have some great Madagascar ebony that burns great
Did I smoke that? Probably.
Your Nanny state(s) are catching up or passing us here in the frozen wastelands.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Ok, I hate doing this since I'm somewhat to the right of Attilla the Hun but still, illegal importation of exotic hardwoods is a huge problem worldwide. It boils down to are there illegal hardwoods in that factory or not? If there are then what's the defense? Is it the good ol "Gee officer I have no idea how that cocaine got under my seat, honest!". Or is it "The manifest says it was this kind of wood when it's actually that kind of wood and how were we supposed to know?". Right. Trust me, the exec's at Gibson are experts in those woods, they know what is what. The only real defense is the feds are wrong, those woods are in fact legal and I hope that's the case.
I'm definitely on the side of preserving American jobs and all that but what are you guys suggesting here? That the feds look the other way because it's Gibson? What about another boutique guitar maker up the street that competes with Gibson who is stuck using legal hardwoods that are not as nice as that killer illegal Brazilian Rosewood, or Indonesian Ebony or whatever it is? Those guys can't compete and wind up going out of business because the Gibsons are nicer with better wood. What about those jobs?
Same principle with illegal immigration. They're either here legally or they're not. It's totally unfair to all the hundreds of thousands of people worldwide who spent the money and went through all the crap to get their legal green cards to then see all the illegals get some kind of amnesty? What a slap that would be.
It's not fair to the legal immigrants and it's not fair to Gibson's competitors if it proves to be true.
Bob
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Well, again the caution is to try real hard not to jump to any conclusions.
--Mac
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From a Gibson press release dated 08/25/2011: Quote:
“The Federal Department of Justice in Washington, D.C. has suggested that the use of wood from India that is not finished by Indian workers is illegal, not because of U.S. law, but because it is the Justice Department’s interpretation of a law in India. (If the same wood from the same tree was finished by Indian workers, the material would be legal.) This action was taken without the support and consent of the government in India.”
This has the ring of truth to it. The Justice Department under Obama is proving itself to be an instrument of political correctness rather than of law, notably by their unwillingness to enforce laws which inhibit the enemies of this country. Left-leaning members of the judiciary increasingly refer to foreign law for precedents, which is an affront to U.S. sovereignty. The administration walks and squawks like a duck that is inimical to the capitalist free enterprise system.
I am neutral on the subject of corporations, believing that they are not inherently good or evil except as they are made so by the men of which they are composed. I so far haven't heard a lot of good about Gibson's CEO. If Gibson is guilty of wrongdoing then there should be consequences. The same should be true if the government misbehaves. I am extremely wary of this administration as regards American institutions.
Whatever the outcome, I hope it reflects a basis in American law rather than of political vendetta.
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