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I wasn't sure where to post this....
I was seriously considering purchasing Band in a Box until I heard some of the real tracks demos and was left feeling somewhat disappointed at how excruciatingly middle of the road they sounded,which isn't necessarily a bad thing if you're into that kind of thing,but I was looking for a more contemporary *indie* type sound.
A VERY large proportion of the styles and real tracks in Band in a Box are country,bluegrass,jazz and horror of horrors, FAITHooo:!!! genres (and again,I don't mean to offend,but this just isn't my scene),and even the heavy rock styles sound somewhat corny.
Two of my favourite bands are Radiohead,and Interpol - my music is heavily influenced by them;is it possible with BIAB to get even close to sounding like this?
I don't mean to discredit BIAB,I love the concept,but it would be nice if they could also cater to musicians looking for a more 'edgier' contemporary sound.
I shall post a request in the request section.
Cheers.

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AT first listen that may be so BUT with a little work and lateral thinking you can write some amazing songs, in any style. Just do not expect to press a button and get a song styled like Radiohead, Lady Gaga or whoever. However I do not use RealTracks I use MIDI and MIDI means to me that anything is possible with a bit of editing, sometimes a lot of editing It just takes time to get what my ears want.

To me BIAB is what it says on the box, it is the best band a man/woman can ever have in his/her home studio and I say that without ANY reservation. After initially writing on guitar/piano all my songs are then developed in BIAB, with a bit of adjusting in another program J**mer, and finished in Cubase SX, or ACID, with a few VSTi's such as FL Studio.
Having just said this in defence of BIAB, which I have used for maybe 20 years, I now will have to put some of my songs on line as examples.

Some really great songs are already on line in the User Showcase, produced with Real Tracks/Instruments, but I won't name names in case I forget some. Take a listen.

Alyn

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Thanks for taking time out to respond Alyn.
I was wondering whether through editing I could achieve the results I'm looking for.I was looking to band in a box as an upgrade, if you will, to my ancient old Yamaha QY700 hardware sequencer that can generate phrases to an inbuilt chord track (in effect what BiaB does.
I'm wondering will it actually offer me anything I can't do with the QY700.
Obviously I have a DAW so the BiaB's included "DAW" isn't essential,and I use designated software for my drum tracks.
Yes, with midi you can edit to your hearts content,but it was the real tracks that interested me in the product.But again,I found them very 'naff', for want of a better word.
I like the idea of the soloist function as I'm a useless lead guitarist,but does is this feature enough to justify me purchasing BiaB.
I'm still tempted though,as intuitively I feel I might just be able to make this thing work for me, (as you've clearly been able to do),just not sure whether I can't already achieve what I want with the equipment I have already,but am just too lazy or impatient to do it.
It's a shame BiaB don't make 'bespoke' packages tailored to the individuals needs, as a huge amount of the styles (jazz,country,faith,bluegrass,cheezy rawk!;-))will just be surplus to requirements,yet I will still be paying for them.
Then again,with some clever editing,or careful placement,a jazz line (for example)might just sound amazing in a section of a rock song.As you said,with a bit of ingenuity one could just make it work.
I will check out some of the songs as you suggested,see if there's anything close to what I want to achieve.
Thanks again.
P:S Very interested to hear your work,so yes,time you posted some material me thinks! ;-)

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I used to have a QY700 machine, and those Yamaha guys sure know how to program styles for the modern listener.

They have a simpler pattern based approach and make use of rich XG synth which helps in the richly detailed programming for synths they get.

It would be great if PG could do a deal with Yamaha and actually license the Halion Sonic engine and sound set for BIAB.

As you and others say. the MIDI side of BIAB and other Arrangers shouldnt be neglected. theres still a lot if mileage in that side but
it does require a much richer sound set and synth capability than just GM2.

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Hey Porch - I suggest you post this on the Off-Topic Forum - there's a lot of knowledge there.
I'm not your man, but this is getting lost here. I don't see why you couldn't use the QY Synth as the primary synth in BIAB - I use an XG DaughterCard which goes back a ways.

Cheers - Ian


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Quote:

I'm a useless lead guitarist,but does is this feature enough to justify me purchasing BiaB.



YES IT DOES ! It will guide you to play guitar better by showing you in real time how to play the lead solos on a fretboard and in multiple positions . That alone is worth the money !

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BiaB, and RB by extension are what they are, they lean towards country, Jazz, light rock, Faith, bluegrass. They are not young hip hop, FM radio type folks. That said the program can do a lot, and the RTs can be very useable blended into a project. In their basic genres they are very powerful, to step out of that it takes more creativity. The very concept of the Real Tracks, is still very young. As the years go by more will be made, and for every one who crys out for radiohead there are ten who cry out for more jazz, country and pop rock.

No tool kit is complete without a full set of tools. No music recording setup is complete without a full arsenel as well. I could get by without BiaB, and RB, but it makes my setup far more productive. You have to decide if it is the right tool to add to your tool kit. Can RTs be used for certain tracks to make the style of music you like. I wrote a country rock song the other day, but i used a lead guitar from the praise set and it fit right in. The track was a bit brash without effects, so a nice deep reverb tamed that beast and made it sit in the mix.

remember what you call cheezy rock, others call hits. Quality is in the ear of the consumer. How many Cds does radiohead sell compared to Britney spears? Wow that makes you think.

Lastly the idea of tailored packages for certain styles. That could be a never ending problem, as no two people could agree on what goes in each package. If you took all the jazz, country, and bluegrass out and sold the rock and praise tracks and styles would it really make the package that much cheaper? Or would the country bass, lead guitar, and even drums maybe useful. but even more important would the cost of building custom packages offset the saving of adding less content? Interesting conversation.


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Other posters will know I am not afraid to criticise BIAB and often do, but i want to jump in here and say that the Yamaha QY's though ok for their generation were far cheesier than BIAB (I have had all three types).
Real Tracks are live musicians and that makes a big difference. A (mouthorgan) harp for example cant be captured by MIDI or certiain feedback types of guitar.
Yes a lot of stuff is 'legacy', but this makes sense because it makes it useful to a wider market.
If you want to rehearse a set of chord changes for your band then there is enough here to get lift off. I often find that the way BIAB plays a phrase gives me inspiration and is very far from the original MIDI blat for on early Yamaha stuff (QY700)
Personally, my view is that there are lots of excellent tracks and I have learnt to enjoy genres that I have never explored - like country

BIAB widens ones ears

I say the best decision is to buy it

Just My opinion

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The software is quite capable of making the music you like, but it requires styles specifically made for that genre.

There are more of the styles you don't like because the existing customer base DOES Like them. But I strongly recommend that you request styles for specific generes and even specific bands.

With every new release, new styles are added. And many of us have found the elements of different styles to be highly reusable in other styles. The current version adds looping capabilty, which lets users create backing tracks based on their own playing, or on commercial loops.

In other words, if the sound you want isn't already available,you have tools to make it yourself. How cool is that?

The younger musician market is the future, and I am sure that the good people at PGMusic will thoughtfully consider your requests.

But please allow me to leave you with one thought:
This is amazing software. The people who make it are proud of it, and rightly so. If you say its cheezy then ask them to add features that you like, why should they? It is common sense not to insult the people you are trying to influence. Just because you start an offensive comment with the phrase "I don't mean to offend" it doesn't make it less offensive.


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BIAB does have the ability to support user made styles and the style wizard can turn a midi track into a style for you; the best results are gained by importing just the right pattens from a midi however that suit your purposes.

Audio Drum tracks can also be imported as 'Real Drums' styles and there's tuition on how to achieve this.

You an also make your own Real Drums style if you have a source track in audio.
Whilst there are styles in eighth base odd metres BIAB treats them in such a way as they take place within a bar of 4 beats. So there are issues about supporting odd time signatures 'as standard'. For metres like 7/8 etc BIAB will not allow you to import/ make style from midi tracks in these time signatures.

So Radiohead might be a hard nut to crack especially if it's any of their odd time signature stuff. I think if you were trying to replicate indie bands you'd be better off with other software.

I would say BIAB has traditionally catered for middle-of-the-road styles that are not based on sonic experimentalism, special effects, or highly specialized idiosyncratic forms. It would be hard to imagine trying to do Frank Zappa's Musique Concrete stuff in BIAB.

Having said that I've managed to do non-metric free jazz in BIAB with varying degrees of success but its not going get me a gig anywhere!! Otherwise by tweaking the chords to give them more bite and abstract tendencies and using lots of drum fills its possible to build up at least an illusion of intensity without too much bother.


Regards


Alan

Last edited by alan S.; 12/11/11 08:34 AM.
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I wanted to revisit this thing as the release of 2012 changed the game.

AS mentioned above, the looping allows any sound you want to add in, plus now there are real tracks with no effect on them just dry clean guitar tracks, add Amplitude to get your attitude right.

Still BiaB, and Rb, are aimed at a wide and basically conservative group. The background is jazz, and such. if you can't see any value in it, then that is your choice.

It's kind of like walking into a Jazz club, and saying this place is cheesy, because it does not have a heavy Metal night!


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Quote:

I wanted to revisit this thing as the release of 2012 changed the game.

AS mentioned above, the looping allows any sound you want to add in, plus now there are real tracks with no effect on them just dry clean guitar tracks, add Amplitude to get your attitude right.

Still BiaB, and Rb, are aimed at a wide and basically conservative group. The background is jazz, and such. if you can't see any value in it, then that is your choice.

It's kind of like walking into a Jazz club, and saying this place is cheesy, because it does not have a heavy Metal night!




The conservatism is more to do with the kind of Jazz on offer in BIAB styles. Its mostly the relaxed swing or Smooth Jazz styles which come across as background music. Some of the modern ones are better as are the Jazz fusion efforts. They do need to seriously think about varying the dynamic levels in all their style database beyond simply a and b however.

The thing is that a lot of the cutting-edge post-modern Jazz made nowadays is anything but conservative. Some of it takes on board Metal and just about every conceivable genre in a sort of constantly shape-shifting, highly interactive approach that makes it hard to cover in a style based program like this. Still I'd like at least to see BIAB try to cover new trends in music; if only out of an instinct for self preservation in the future market out there.

Regards


Alan

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>>> It's a shame BiaB don't make 'bespoke' packages tailored to the individuals needs, as a huge amount of the styles (jazz,country,faith,bluegrass,cheezy rawk!;-)

We have hundreds of Rock RealTracks Styles here...
http://www.pgmusic.com/bbwin.realtracks.rock.htm

There are hundreds of Rock compositions made by our Users, which you can listen to here
http://www.pgmusic.com/user-showcase/?genre=rock

Many of these user tracks sound like different styles of Rock than our RealTracks. That is because they have added their own vocals, and additional tracks themselves. Presumably you would be doing the same thing.

Anywyay, listen to those User demos, you might hear something you like.


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The thing is, IF you are just going to lay on BiaB, and have it make the whole song for you, you may not get exactly what you want, if it is not in a Genre that the program supports.

But with a bit of creativity you can get what you want. It take some work on your part. Here is a list of things that help you get what you want, using both BiaB and Rb as a team.

1. with rb, 48 tracks to lay down your own tracks along BiaB created ones.

2. Looping to bring in any sound you can find, borrow, or make.

3. "raw" Real tracks to add your own flavor of effects.

4. a very wide based selection of existing RTs.

Take just these 4 options and there is very little you can't do.


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wake up, brother....Band in a Box has the best backing track quality available anywhere. Obviously you are very young, 'cause you don't know that Biab is the only program using Realtracks, which are real recording sessions from studio musicians....etc....I am not going to be here to instruct you of this

if that sounds 'cheezy' to you, then toss your PC in the bin, play in a band or just listen to your Radiohead records, as there's no other turnarounds.

PS. the heavy rock backing tracks to me kick ass, very 80's, exactly as I like them

PPS. no offense, but to me Radiohead are a musically meaningless band, as it is most of the 'indie' sound...

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Quote:

PPS. no offense, but to me Radiohead are a musically meaningless band, as it is most of the 'indie' sound...





why pull your punches?.. tell us what you really think ....no offense


Regards


Alan

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New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2025!

We’ve expanded the Band-in-a-Box® RealTracks library with 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 449-467) across Jazz, Blues, Funk, World, Pop, Rock, Country, Americana, and Praise & Worship—featuring your most requested styles!

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These RealTracks includes “Soul Jazz” with Neil Swainson (bass), Mike Clark (drums), Charles Treadway (organ), Miles Black (piano), and Brent Mason (guitar). Enjoy “Requested ’60s” jazz, classic acoustic blues with Colin Linden, and more of our popular 2-handed piano soloing. Plus, a RealTracks first—Tango with bandoneon, recorded in Argentina!

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We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles

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And, if you are looking for more, the 2025 49-PAK (for $49) includes an additional 20 RealTracks with exciting new sounds and genre-spanning styles. Enjoy RealTracks firsts like Chinese instruments (guzheng & dizi), the bandoneon in an authentic Argentine tango trio, and the classic “tic-tac” baritone guitar for vintage country.

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  • Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
  • Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
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  • Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
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In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!

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New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Windows!

We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!

We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!

If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!

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Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.

Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!

XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.

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