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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Hello all! It's my first post, and I suspect that I'll be around quite a bit asking dopey questions, I hope you'll bear with me. First question...and I'm sure it's a topic brought up before...is about Software Synths. The Roland Soundcanvas that was included in my BIAB package is adaquate for the sounds of drums, bass and drums, but with things like guitar, horns, and strings it...well shall we say it leaves a bit to be desired? So - are there alternate VSTis or whatever that you could suggest that would sound better? I'd happily pay some cash for a significant improvement, although a really nice free download synth would of course be very cool. Thanks!
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Welcome to the forum, Beowulf! A while ago, I came to the same conclusion as you. I first bought the Forte dxi by Coyote, which is much better in the guitar/horn dept ( see http://pgmusic.com/fortedxi.htm). Later, I went for the Ketron SD2, tho more expensive, gives good value for the $$ (not a software synth, see http://pgmusic.com/ketronsd2.htm). Listen to the demos... - Jepster
Last edited by JEP; 02/05/09 02:06 AM.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Ketron SD2 is a very good sounding little box, hard to find a better soundset for BIAB without spending three or four times its price or more.
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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There's anew soft synth/sampler coming on the market real soon. Garritain personal orchestra with a player called aria. It maybe the best, lest expensive way to get high quality instruments. If you go to the Northern Sounds forum, there's a sub group on the GPO instruments http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/index.php?From the limited info, it looks like the program that manages the sounds"Aria" maybe very compatible with BIAB. There are also several free soft synths and a site I find very useful for that info is http://www.kvraudio.com/Hope this helps Wyndham
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Thanks! It looks like the link to the Ketron demos is down though. That Forte is a marked improvement in sound for a very few bucks, although the melody instruments do still sound very "keyboardy", but perhaps that's the nature of the beast? I know that when I recorded with my old Proteus units I had to approach the melodies pretty carefully and tweak things to make strings and horns sound convincing. So BIAB is playing off the GM instruments in a given synth, or is that tweakable too? And would a sampler like Kontakt be appropriate to use? I really gotta get through this manual! Although I can't find anything addressing this issue in it yet. I appreciate this forum, you folks have been very helpful!
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Band In A Box can send to any MIDI device, and if the MIDI device has banks of sounds above the General MIDI, it can access them as well. However, synths, software or hardware are rather static, whereas the instruments you're talking about are very dynamic. Hence, it's very difficult to get that 'great' sound from any synth.
I don't own an SD2 yet, although I plan on getting one...just bought a new computer, so that should be fun...and I also have a Korg PA800 arranger keyboard. I don't know what to tell you right now, other than get the most you can for your money.
Gary
I'm blessed watching God do what He does best. I've had a few rough years, and I'm still not back to where I want to be, but I'm on the way and things are looking far better now than what they were!
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Quote:
So BIAB is playing off the GM instruments in a given synth, or is that tweakable too? And would a sampler like Kontakt be appropriate to use?
You can use any synth, hardware or software with Biab including Kontakt but the problem is with ease of use. The reason to use an integrated GM synth is all the instruments are preloaded into ram and are instantly accessable to Biab. That makes those simple plug and play. A non-GM soundset using large samples like Kontakt or in my case Sampletank, have to be set up individually for each song. Sampletank also has a GM soundbank I can use but they don't preload either so I still have to set up each instrument individually ahead of time for each song. If you decide after hearing the tune one time to change the nylon guitar to the steel guitar, you have to go back into the sampler, take out the nylon and load the steel. You can have Biab really sound great that way but it's very tedious to have to do that. The other problem is with program changes. That's where a given style in Biab wants to change an instrument in the middle of the tune while the song is playing . If you're working with a big sampler like Kontakt, it needs a few seconds to load the sample but in a real time situation like that, the song is already playing so it causes an instant lockup. This is the reason why GM software synths all sound a little weak. Everything has to be loaded ahead of time, you can't use disc streaming or whatever. Hardware doesn't have that problem but if you don't want to use hardware, then people use Biab to create the song, then open the song up in Real Band or another sequencer because there you can use all your killer sampler sounds much easier.
I know you're new at this and it's difficult getting your head around all this stuff. There is no one easy solution to getting killer sounds out of Biab for small money. Good hardware synths are going to cost you and if you want to keep it in software then you have the problems I just described. Everything is a compromise, you have to learn enough to make a decision as to which way you want to go.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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The other thing you can do is to build the song inside BiaB, then save as a midi with any RTs and RDs, and open it in Real Band. then process the midi tracks with a good sampler like Kontact, or sampletank using the better samples you like and then bounce those to audio tracks and delete the midi and resave. you can use better effects on audio and get a very convincing track in the end.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
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Mac, those are some pretty impressive demos! Are you playing the sax in that first one or is that a sample of some kind? If it is it's very convincing. I can't hear them all for some reason, perhaps because my connection out here in the swamp is a sad and primitve one I guess. What I might wind up doing for now is take tracks out to Real Band or shoot them into Cubase (if I can figure that bit out), and then render them out in Kontakt, which I already have. But I might still save up for that Ketron  if I can, it's sounding very good! At this point I just have to keep figuring out the BIAB program...I can tell there's a lot to learn. I got everything loaded and going last week, and then my entire PC went down. The folks at the shop said it wasn't any of my software ("just another case of s&*# happens") so now I'm reloading everything, including BIAB and my entire library of loops for Acid Pro. It's gonna take days. Thanks again everybody for all this good advice!
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
Ma Are you playing the sax in that first one or is that a sample of some kind?
No saxophone to play here (grin). That's the Ketron SD2.
All songs but "Peg" are examples taken from pgmusic BIAB demo files. The one in question had but one Real Instrument, the RealDrums, I put it twice because the second time around I used the Ketron's SD2 MIDI drum samples instead so you can hear the difference.
"Peg" is a fullblown MIDI sequence rendered in Powertracks, all instruments heard are the Ketron SD2.
The SD2 is a LOT of good samples and sounds for the money.
And truth be told, a hardware MIDI synth is simply less trouble than software synths, too. I have quite a few software "solutions" here and the SD2 or my SD4 have all but retired them. Hardware synth is zero latency, no fuss, no sudden surprises such as, "it worked yesterdaym today there's pops, clicks and interruptions..."
--Mac
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Man! That's sounding really good. I'm gonna start saving up my quarters...getting the PC revived tapped me out right now though...
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Hello Mac
It seems that you own ketron SD2 AND SD4. As I also own the SD2, what are the advantages to get the SD4.
Following the website, it seems that the drums are the only difference for the point of vue of sounds ?
Claude
Paris
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Hi Claude,
The SD4 is actually TWO SD2's in one box. It also has a numeric keypad and 12 other buttons with a small readout on the front panel such that the user can choose patches and effects from its front panel.
There are indeed two different inputs on the back for the two different SD2 engines. Same patches as the SD2, incidentally. I haven't much use for the Live Drums feature, being a BIAB and RB user (grin).
The SD4 was obviously designed for the MIDI player who uses it mostly for Live Performance applications, I think. One channel and synth for playing back MIDI sequences from a laptop and the other one for their "Solo" synth which is hooked to their MIDI instrument.
I don't think you are missing a thing using the SD2 with BIAB and other pgmusic products, etc.
*The same SD2 patchmap works exactly the same with the SD4 inside BIAB or PT. Calls the same patches.
Hope this helps,
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
Hello all! It's my first post, and I suspect that I'll be around quite a bit asking dopey questions, I hope you'll bear with me. First question...and I'm sure it's a topic brought up before...is about Software Synths. The Roland Soundcanvas that was included in my BIAB package is adaquate for the sounds of drums, bass and drums, but with things like guitar, horns, and strings it...well shall we say it leaves a bit to be desired? So - are there alternate VSTis or whatever that you could suggest that would sound better? I'd happily pay some cash for a significant improvement, although a really nice free download synth would of course be very cool. Thanks!
Yes, as others have written, there are much better softsynths available than the included VSC.
However, as also written, it is much easier with BIAB to use a General Midi softsynth, than one that does not follow the GM specification (most do not).
As was mentioned, the Coyote Forte DXI softsynth, very inexpensive, available for purchase from PGMusic (you can download a free demo to try first), is a GM softsynth with much better sound than VSC.
A GM softsynth that probably sounds better than that, but costs more, and I think uses more of your CPU resources, is Bandstand, from Native Instruments.
Someone mentioned Garritan Personal Orchestra. It is an excellent orchestral synth. As mentioned, it will soon have a new version out, using the Aria sample playback engine. (The old version used Kontakt.) However, it is not GM, so would be more complicated to use. (Unless the new ARIA version has some way to set to a GM mode or something?) Also, as it is a classical orchestra, it may not be as well suited to jazz and pop sounds. Garritan also has a synth called "Jazz and Big Band", which has very good jazz instrument sounds (also not GM though). A couple years ago they announced they would come out with a GM softsynth called GEM, but it never was released (other than a Reason Refill), and no more announcements of it, so I think the idea was dropped.)
Another option for a General MIDI synth is to use a free soundfont player, like sfz, and to load a General MIDI soundfont into it. Here is one that is supposed to be very good--http://www.papelmedia.eu/english/ . It only costs 27 Euro (not sure how that translates into dollars-perhaps $30-40), less than Coyote Forte DXI, and it is supposed to be very good. (Might be interesting if someone did a comparison review of this Papelmedia GM soundfont, against Coyote Forte and Bandstand.)
Of course, as others have mentioned, you could also use a hardware GM sound module, like the Ketron, or those from Roland-Edirol and others. That has the disadvantages of another piece of hardware to connect (and carry with you, if a portable setup), and less flexibility, as the sounds are hard-wired. It has the advantage of using much less CPU and RAM, as your computer then does not have to synthesize the sounds, they are present in the external module. And some--like the Ketron, are supposed to be quite good. This (using an external sound module) used to be very common, before the advent of softsynths.
If you wish to render a creation in BIAB to a .wav file, however, it could be problematical, if you use a hardware sound module, and wish to capture that sound. Then you would have to actually record the sound from the module, routing its sound output to the input of another sound card, or using a microphone to record the sound. With a softsynth, however, you would not have to record like that, the audio file can be automatically rendered.
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I'll check out Bandstand...I've had mixed feelings about Native Instruments - I love their products but it seems if anything goes wrong their aftermarket support is negligible at best (at least in my experience). Still, it bears looking at, as I do have and use other software of theirs and it's always sounded excellent. At this point I've downloaded Forte (no reason not to) and it is a significant improvement from the Soundcanvas, although not at the level that something like the Ketron can produce. I still like the ease of using a softsynth though, I'm trying to minimise the cables in my life if possible! There's enough spegetti in the studio as it is.
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Quote:
I still like the ease of using a softsynth though, I'm trying to minimise the cables in my life if possible! There's enough spegetti in the studio as it is.
You hit it right on the head. Hardware has a lot of advantages but desktop clutter is not one of them plus having to play your opus in real time to record it. A five minute tune takes five minutes to record while software can render it in about 20 seconds. I like that. The whole reason more and more powerful softsynths were created was to bypass all that and I'm a believer but with Biab, it's a pain because it only has one midi output port so you can only use one softsynth. That means it has to have all the instruments. You can't use a killer drum module just for drums, another just for guitar, etc. I use Forte exclusively in Biab because it sounds good enough to not hurt my ears while I put a tune together, then the whole thing goes into Real Band although many times lately I'm using just Real Band because it does about 90% of what Biab does anyway with a lot more flexibility.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Hi maiki,
I use both Papelmedia and the Forte GM sets but generally in PTW/RealBand and via VSampler so that both sets are immediately available, I just need to change the LSB code between 0 and 1 to switch instrument patches from one set to the other. In comparison, some patches are better in Forte and others in Papel. As examples: in my view, Patch 33 Acoustic Bass is better in Forte while Patch 55 plus alternative voices are much better in Papel. Both are better than than the VSC DXi but I choose to use the VSC synth in BIAB for simplicity while in PTW/RB I have the freedom to mix and match sounds from a number of different sources.
Lyn
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Absolute quality of sound, zero latency, always works, no pops or clicks, no sudden surprises or be upset about a couple or three cables extra and having to wait a whole five minutes...
I'll go with the quality of sound, etc. man.
--Mac
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I have heard Bandstand in BB 2008.5 and thought it.....stunk. The balance of the instruments were off, and I thought that the free Sound Site Album Bank or Massive thru SFZ sounded more balanced.
Of course this is all YMMV & IMHO
i5 3.20GHz, 32gb RAM, 1tb SSD OS, 12tb HDD, 4gb gForce vid card, 32" monitor, Audient id44, Win10 x64, BiaB/RB 2023, Reaper 6,IK Multimedia Total Studio 3.5 MAX, Waves 10
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
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Last Chance! The Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac® Special Ends Today (May 31, 2026) at 11:59pm PDT!
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Another exciting new addition is the amazing new AI-Notes feature, which can transcribe polyphonic audio into MIDI. View the results in notation or play them back as MIDI, and choose whether to transcribe an entire track or transcribe specific parts like drums, bass, guitars/piano, or vocals. There's over 100 new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®.
There's an amazing collection of new content too, including 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two RealDrums Stems sets, and much more!
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202 New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2026!
With Band-in-a-Box® 2026, we've released 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 468-488) in a variety of genres—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Funk & World (Sets 468-475):
Our new jazz, funk & blues RealTracks include a groovin’ collection of RealTracks and RealDrums! These include more requested “soul jazz” RealTracks featuring artists Neil Swainson (bass), Charles Treadway (organ), Brent Mason (guitar), and Wes Little (drums). There are new “smooth jazz” styles (4), which include a RealTracks first: muted trumpet, as well as slick new smooth jazz brushes options for drums. Blues lovers will be thrilled—there are more “classic acoustic blues” styles, including guitar (5), bass (4), and drums (10) with blues master Colin Linden, featuring understated and tasty background acoustic soloing, plus brushes drums and acoustic bass. There are also new electric blues RealTracks, including electric blues with PG favorite Johnny Hiland (3) and soulful electric slide guitar from Colin Linden (4). If you love funk & gospel, there are great new options this year, including gospel organ (3) from Charles Treadway, as well as new funk, tango, and rock ’n’ roll drums (3) and bass (1). And for big, bold arrangements, we have uptempo soul horns (4) featuring a three-part hip horn section with options for a full mix or stems of each individual horn — plus an accompanying rhythm section (4) of drums, bass, guitar, and electric piano!
Rock & Pop (Sets 476–482):
Our new rock & pop RealTracks bring a powerful mix of requested favorites, fresh genres, and modern chart-inspired styles! We have more of our popular “Producer Layered Acoustic Guitars (15)” featuring Band-in-a-Box favorite Brent Mason. We’ve continued our much-requested disco styles (10), and added new Celtic guitar (5) with a more basic, accessible approach than our previous Drop-D or DADGAD offerings. There are also highly requested yacht rock styles (17), inspired by the smooth, polished soft-rock sound of the late ’70s and early ’80s — laid-back grooves, silky electric pianos, warm textures, elegant harmonic movement, and pristine production aesthetics. Fans of heavier styles will love our new glam metal (13), capturing the flashy, high-energy sound of ’80s arena-ready guitar rock. We also have a set of rootsy modern-folk rock (18), with a warm, organic sound combining contemporary folk textures and driving acoustic strumming. And we’ve added lots of new modern pop styles (16) — the kinds of sounds you’re hearing on the radio today, featuring exciting new drums, synths, and cutting-edge RealTracks arrangements.
Country, & Americana (Sets 483–488):
Our new country & Americana RealTracks deliver a rich collection of acoustic, electric, and roots-inspired styles! We have new country pop (9) with legendary guitarist Brent Mason. There is also a potpourri (14) of bouzouki, guitars, banjo, and more, perfect for adding texture and character to contemporary acoustic arrangements. We’ve added funky country guitar (5) with PG favorite Brent Mason, along with classic pedal steel styles (5) featuring steel great Doug Jernigan. There are more country songwriter styles (8) that provide intimate, rootsy foundations for storytelling and modern Americana writing. Finally, we have “background soloing” acoustic guitar (12) with Brent Mason — simpler, but still very tasty acoustic lines designed to sit beautifully behind vocals or act as a subtle standalone solo part.
Check out all the 202 new RealTracks (in sets 468-488)!
And, if you are looking for more, the 2026 49-PAK (for $49) includes an impressive collection of 20 bonus RealTracks, featuring exciting and inspiring additions to add to your RealTracks library. You'll get new country-rhythm guitar styles from PG Music favorites Johnny Hiland and Brent Mason, along with modern-pop grooves that capture today’s radio-ready sound! There are also new indie-folk styles with guitar, bass, 6-string bass used as a high-chording instrument, acoustic guitar, and banjo. Plus, dedicated "cymbal fills" RealDrums provide an added layer that work very well with low-key folky styles with other percussion.
The 2026 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2026 49-PAK!
2026 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
With your version 2026 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons for FREE! Or upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2026 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 27 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 25 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 12 new RealStyles.
- MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
- Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
- Playable RealTracks Set 5
- RealDrums Stems Set 9: Cool Brushes
- SynthMaster Sounds Set 1 (with audio demos)
- iOS Android Band-in-a-Box® App
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyle.
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- MIDI Styles Set 93: Look Ma! More MIDI 16: SynthMaster
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
- Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
- RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
- SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
Learn more about the Bonus PAK and 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
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