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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 113
Apprentice
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OP
Apprentice
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 113 |
I use BIAB mostly for swing music. The bass lines generated in general sound good but there's always places where I hear bad voice leading or jumps that I would not expect a bass player to do.
I realize this is a vague post. I'd be curious to hear from other keyboard players who use BIAB for bass (and perhaps drums).
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 20,640
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 20,640 |
Hi Dave,
I've probably read your post wrongly but it sounds like you are asking people to criticize BIAB. I can't do that because I think the program is brilliant.
For what it's worth, my experience is that whenever one uses automation to intimate a real musician, there's a trade-off between what a musician would do and what a computer program does.
For me, BIAB is not the answer to my musical backings, it's the starting place. Once I've created something in BIAB, I take it to Realband and re-generate those sections that I feel do not work as effectively as they could. This applies to all instruments and not just the bass. I also cut and paste those riffs that I like so as to provide some musical hooks. Once I get a sound that I like, I save the SEQ file. I also export it as a WAV file and compress it to a hi-fi mp3.
This is where Realband excels. It allows me to take a computer creation and, using everything that I know about music, to modify that creation and to enhance the realism as I hear it.
Regards,
Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2026
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 13,040
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 13,040 |
Quote:
I realize this is a vague post. I'd be curious to hear from other keyboard players who use BIAB for bass (and perhaps drums).
For bass I will occasionally hear a super walking line or some fancy pattern which fits nicely, and prior advice about working the arrangement in RB is the way to go. My criticism of some of the bass lines is that it sounds like the bass player wants to stand on the front of the stage and act like he is playing a solo - through my arrangement!  At that point I have to tell him, "dude, your the bass player - just hold down the root notes, I'll handle the solos". Lots have been done in BIAB to provide "simple" and "very simple" bass lines which are super. Check some of them out.
Drums are a different beast. I love BIAB cause I can do drums in seconds, however, if you need that custom arrangements historically I have looked elseware - but beware, drums can drive you nuts trying to program a specific groove...  . By the way I told a drummer once what I said to the "BIAB" bass player above and boy did I regret it. Don't piss off the drummer, my solos sounded like hell when he decided to mess with the rhythm.  I won't do that again.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,616
Expert
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Expert
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,616 |
Dave,
The Simple and Very Simple variations that Dan mentioned may address your needs. I do mostly swing music and rarely use the Jazz RTs relying mostly on the Midi bass in JAZZSIMP style. It is solid and never stands out.
Be sure to try other bass RTs such as Gypsy Acoustic Bass and Pop Swing Acoustic Bass. Also the use of the A/B part markers may make a difference.
R
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 581
Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 581 |
I'm in agreement that some of the bass parts get a little 'busy' and may not be what "I" would do or my preferred bass player might do ... The new 'simple' feature is nice to have ! My process is much the same as Noel's. BIAB is the starting point and I'm not there too long. Just long enough to do the chord arrangement, basic instruments etc, then it's off to Real Band for the real work. Once in RB, I will regenerate a bar, a few notes of a bass track until I get something acceptable for the tune at hand. (NOTE: There IS a bug in this process. If your tune has any tempo changes in it, the regen will also erase a few bars after it (arrggh - Hope this gets fixed soon !) There are some tunes with 'signature' lines. These and the ones you feel just don't cut it, can always be hand-written in midi, and now with VST, apply Garritan or other for the bass rendering... here's an example of a 'sig' bass line that just HAD to be done in midi... with the Garritan Jazz & Big Band upright bass applied. http://soundcloud.com/mitchc-1/adventures-in-paradise-mix1Don't fault the tool. It's great at what it does. You need to be creative with how you use it. It's amazing to me that Real Tracks even work !! Imagine what is involved. Any infinate number of chord progressions, tempos etc, and to try to intelligently generate a 'part' out of small phrase samples is just staggering to me !
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 113
Apprentice
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OP
Apprentice
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 113 |
Rachel, I'll try the more simple bass parts, thanks!
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 826
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 826 |
Hey come on now. We bass players are people too. We deserve a moment in the limelight. And we're not 'simple'. lol
BiaB 2013 b366, RB 2013 b4, WinXP Pro SP3, Toshiba M70, 1.8GHz 2GB RAM 100GB HD. Focusrite Saffire 6 USB, Ketron SD2. BiaB Wiki
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 113
Apprentice
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OP
Apprentice
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 113 |
In the real world, when a piano player plays simply, bass players interpret that as an invitation to play more; the piano player just wants to change the mood and keep things ... simple. 
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,610
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,610 |
In my real world, I'm a jazz pianist and love the playing of bassists John Patitucci, Stanley Clarke, Gary Peacock, Eddie Gomez, Christian McBride, etc. Modern jazz pianists (IMHO) don't want a 1-5 player. So it all depends on what kind of music you like and play. If you're playing at a country club, then a 1-5 bassist would be fine. At a jazz club you want more than that. In modern jazz group the bassist is more than a timekeeper. I'm not advocating that the bassist plays like he's constantly soloing, but play like he's doing more than keeping time. Much like the aforementioned bassists. In the end it's what kind of music you like that will determine what kind of bassist you'll like. Later, Ray
Asus Q500A i7 Win 10 64 bit 8GB ram 750 HD 15.5" touch screen, BIAB 2017, Casio PX 5s, Xw P1, Center Point Stereo SS V3 and EWI 4000s.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 113
Apprentice
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OP
Apprentice
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 113 |
jim111, thanks for that video.
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