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Time to retire the 2003-vintage job as it will no longer run necessary applications (Real Tracks, Tracktion 3, certain plugins) well or at all. Unfortunately, a new machine won't run certain older apps that I would rather keep (Nuendo 1.6, which requires a parallel port dongle), meaning I would like to have an equivalent software DAW to take its place. Real Band ain't it, although I want it available.
I am likely also going to need a new audio/MIDI interface as my PCI-based Soundblaster Audigy won't be usable and I am dubious about my Tascam US-224. (I had my heart set on the Lexicon Omega, in part because it comes bundled with Cubase LE4 [which will also run some killer Sound Fonts I have], but some valid reservations exist.) I would prefer something with an actual MIDI port or ports as opposed to USB so it will be compatible with some of my older gear.
Let's say I have less than a kilobuck to play with. I would like to keep the PC in the $300 to $400 range if possible. Is that reasonable for an off-the-shelf unit? Interface under $200. We're not talking ideals, just good serviceable gear. Let's talk processor, memory, 7200-RPM drive, as much RAM as possible. Dual video outs would be nice. (Do new PCs come with that?) I'm thinking I can get more bang for the buck out of a desktop, yes?
I had hoped to maybe get BIAB 2012 or Reason 6 (I get a sidegrade discount and that could be my DAW, too), but probably not both, and maybe not either. I may become a free/shareware DAW user before this is all over.
I have probably omitted a great deal; parts of what I have said will be misunderstood; and new ideas will be raised. Here I am, an A+ trained PC tech with almost 20 years of hacking behind me and I feel like a newbie. Let the games begin.
Richard
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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... Interface under $200. We're not talking ideals, just good serviceable gear...
Before the weekend is out, I will test recording in Sonar using the US-224 on my windows 7 laptop. If it works well then you can save yourself $100 - $200 right there on a audio interface.
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Quote:
Quote:
... Interface under $200. We're not talking ideals, just good serviceable gear...
Before the weekend is out, I will test recording in Sonar using the US-224 on my windows 7 laptop. If it works well then you can save yourself $100 - $200 right there on a audio interface.
Thank you. I just recalled that there is a bundled version of Cubase with the 224, fully functional but for having only one level of undo. Well, we've dealt with that before, haven't we? 
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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Reaper.
MTS -- MultiTrackStudio.
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Quote:
I will test recording in Sonar using the US-224 on my windows 7 laptop. If it works well then you can save yourself $100 - $200 right there on a audio interface.
My experience with the US-428, which uses the same driver as the US-224, was that it mostly didn't work with Windows 7. Tascam last updated the driver for Windows Vista, so the drivers are unsigned as far as Win7 is concerned. The US-428 driver DID work in Win7 when my Win7 was done as an update on top of Vista where the driver had been previously installed and working. When I started having issues with the update install and did a clean install on another drive, Win7 rejected the drivers as being unsigned. I did some extensive Googling and found several little tricks to force Win7 to take an unsigned driver, but each time I managed to get it to accept the driver, it didn't stick. Win7 always deleted the driver. I would point out too, that on the Vista to Win7 update, the presence of the US-428 always caused Win7 to hang on shut-down. If I remembered to turn the US-428 off before a shut-down, the computer would shut down normally. Other than that, the 428 operated normally.
I never did find a way to get the US-428 to operate with my clean install so I switched to the FW-1884 as my interface. Its a great mixer but TASCAM has told us that they aren't going to support it beyond Win7.
Keith
2025 Audiophile Windows 11 RYZEN THREADRIPPER 3960X 4.5GHZ 128 GB RAM 2 Nvidia RTX 3090s, Vegas,Acid,SoundForge,Izotope Production,Melodyne Studio,SONAR,3 Raven Mtis
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Ryszard, There are several items in your opening post that have me wondering if you might already have everything you need except for the PC. All modern laptops, even the cheaper ones, have dual video if you count the laptop screen as one of the screens. Regarding soundfonts - you can use the freeware SFZ+ from Cakewalk (get yours here: http://www.store.cakewalk.com/b2cus/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=35-CWSZ1.40-20Eto use your soundfonts - no need to buy anything or be forced to use a certain DAW software. The 7200 RPM drive is no issue if you are comfortable replacing a typical 5400 rpm drive in a lappy with the 7200 flavors available inexpensively from places like www.techforless.com and first imaging the old drive to the new one. I actually haven't found a need for a 7200 rpm drive in my new lappy - yet. Maybe once I get cranking on a big number of tracks, but my typical stuff actually runs happy with 5400. Can't speak to getting the US-224 to work with Win7. I do now have a Tascam US800 that I have working servicably in Win7. Nice clean pre-amps - much better than my old FireBox. Watch for them to go on sale at Musician's Friend for $99. That price is current about every 6 weeks or so, for a week at a time so it seems. I also don't understand the 'actual MIDI ports' comment. The US224 has MIDI in/out on the back - What's not proper about those connections? The US-800 is USB connected, and has DIN style MIDI ports on the back. Doesn't have all the cool mixer sliders and transport controls that the US-224 has, but perhaps you don't use those? Most laptops in the 400-500$ range have multiple ways of doing dual video. Mine that I just bought has a VGA port as well as an HDMI port on the thing. I use the lappy screen and an external VGA monitor simultaneously. I put all the static stuff (like the US800 control panel) on the lappy screen and all the stuff I interact with on the external monitor screen. However, I might spring for a nice big 32" LCD monitor and use the HDMI. You could actually afford that in your $1000 price limit. Lappy for $400-$500, VIZIO 32" LCD for $350 at Sam's Club (join if you have to) http://www.samsclub.com/sams/shop/product.jsp?productId=prod3770254&iid=CRSJ684and still have a couple hundred left over for an interface of your choosing. Boom.
Last edited by rockstar_not; 01/05/12 01:34 PM.
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Honestly, if you pay more than a couple hundred for an interface, either you're getting ripped off or you're buying for a band.
There are always deals at Micro Center, New Egg, 1SaleADay.com, Woot, places like that. You might be able to get a monster for less than a thou; a computer that will serve your music needs for years is easy.
And, if you're worried about the hard drive speeds, get an external drive and record to that. Many of them come with USB 3.0 now, and a PCI card for that is thirty to forty bucks. (I've been recording to external hard drive anyway -- that way, I'm reasonably sure to keep the data if the computer goes, and I can also take it with me to use on the laptop.)
Best, Tom SmithWin10/64 • i7-8700K • 24 GB RAM BIAB 2025 • Reaper 7 • Izotope MPS AKG C1000S • IK iRig I/O Pro
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I have the us-224 working on a clean install on a windows 7 laptop. I just haven't tested recording yet (just playback). I'll test recording in the next day or two. If that works, great -- if not, well ... then I'll be following your buying decisions!
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Great stuff, all. I was about to ask where everybody was but you came through in a big way. Kemmer, I look forward to your test results with great anticipation! *** Rockstar, The US-224 is unique in being the lowest-cost interface and control surface I have found. I do use the transport and sliders, particularly with Reason. I'm sure it could be made to work with BIAB, too, but PG haven't supplied the drivers. The comment about MIDI DIN ports was made when I wasn't sure if I'd be able to use the 224. I am also losing the use of my PCI-based Audigy 2 ZS Platinum Pro's DIN ports. If I can use the 224, great; if not, I need to keep looking. I'm fixed for video for the moment. I've still got a couple of ancient 17" CRT monitors hanging around which I will use until they die. (One is in the process.) The 32" unit sounds like fun, but I'm shopping for a new TV as well. I'll save the huge screen for that. *** Tom, I never would have thought of an external drive but I'll keep your suggestion in mind. I have no problem swapping out internal drives. *** To many, I kinda had my heart set on that Lexicon unit but I kept reading reviews from several sources. Upshot seems to be that IF you got a good unit and IF you could get it installed it was great. MANY people had install issues (which I suspect were due to technical ability) as well as objective issues such as dropping the USB connection, losing the drivers, hardware problems, etc. I still think it's a great unit at a great price, but I've had enough of dealing with iffy systems. I want bulletproof. MF offers a 3-year extended warranty. I MIGHT consider it if the 224 doesn't work out. *** Keep those cards and letters coming, folks! Thanks, R.
Last edited by Ryszard; 01/05/12 09:15 PM.
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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Quote:
....Keep those cards and letters coming, folks! Thanks, R.
---Ok, another card,(I've been called worse, lol). I recommend waiting awhile. Intel is supposed to be coming out with something new, and it shouldn't be too long now. I'm guessing july or august should see some killer deals--this fall at the very latest.
---If you positively can't wait, at least go i5 with plenty of ram. Think $650 instead of $350.
Just my 02, good luck on whatever you decide!
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Well we know Windows (8) is heavy on touch screen.
The all in one touchscreen stuff at Best Buy right now is sort of cool but...
They need to be lighter, thinner, and more portable.
I do however see it coming. The bride and I have Android phones, 3 laptops and a 'computer', plus a tablet. I can use dropbox on any of them and have the files available at your fingertips. Quite weird.
I'm working on a Celtic set times 2 (Burns night then St. Pat's day...then combine them the rest of the year). So when I get a tune ready I put the pdf of the band in a box leadsheet and the backing track into the dropbox and on a break she can tell me what to fix. And send me emails about what to do next.
So sad that my autocomplete box is unchecked and so much stuff hangs in ...sigh.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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BTW, a friend of mine bought an 8080 in the day. Olivetti. Didn't get a 286 due to the rumour of a 386. Put that off. And the next thing. The olivetti packed it in and he found an Olivetti typewriter/wordprocessor. Ran that for 10 years. Ribbons or something became hard to find. Then he reverted to an IBM selectric he got a garage sale. Another 10 years go buy and finally Dad let me take him and get a computer.
The next 6 months I played support hotline.
Phone: "The needle dooey isn't showing up."
Me: "what?"
Dad: "The thing where you push on the other thing with that thing thing."
Me: "OH, you mean...???"
I'm sure you get this.
I found out it was my youngest brother, who had a free computer in his office at the school board was getting info from the IT department. When I asked my brother what computer he had at home he said..."why buy a computer when you get one for free at work?" Hard to argue that. Now he's 55 and he and his wife both pull down top buck as senior teachers, and they just moved 'home' to live with his wife's mother because 200k is not enough to afford those vacations. Geez. And to think I quit teaching to bird dog forest fires.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Quote:
I have the us-224 working on a clean install on a windows 7 laptop.
If you actually did get the driver to stick in a clean install of Windows 7, I'd appreciate some insight on how you were able to do it. I don't need the know how for myself any longer, but I'm a moderator at tascamforums.com and get lots of questions regarding making the driver for the 224 and 428 work in Windows 7. It would be nice to pass on what you have learned.
Keith
2025 Audiophile Windows 11 RYZEN THREADRIPPER 3960X 4.5GHZ 128 GB RAM 2 Nvidia RTX 3090s, Vegas,Acid,SoundForge,Izotope Production,Melodyne Studio,SONAR,3 Raven Mtis
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Quote:
Quote:
I have the us-224 working on a clean install on a windows 7 laptop.
If you actually did get the driver to stick in a clean install of Windows 7, I'd appreciate some insight on how you were able to do it. I don't need the know how for myself any longer, but I'm a moderator at tascamforums.com and get lots of questions regarding making the driver for the 224 and 428 working in Windows 7. It would be nice to pass on what you have learned. -- Keith
You know, I really should have taken screen shots as I went along and really documented it -- but I didn't know if it would work!! here's my best recollection. I used this post at http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/1101-63-tascam-driver-windows as a guideline: Quote:
impy: Ok this post is the only way to make your lovely us-428 working atm with windows 7 32,64 bit.First of all download the official vista driver v 3.40 from http://tascam.com/content/downloads/products/314/US224_Win_3.40f.zip . After that you have to run the setup. During the installation steps you wll get an error message that the driver couldnt be installed. Bypass it!!!!!Now you must have a folder with the name US428 in your program files.This is the place where you must seek for the driver under the manual istallation process.Go to device manager, there you will find a unoknown device (this must be your us428 exept if you have others devices without drivers lol), righ click on it and choose update driver. Then choose the ''search my computer" option.Seek for your driver at US428 folder that we mentioned before and let windows handle the rest.That's it now you have your US-428 working.!!!!!
Here's what I did:
1.) Install the 3.40 windows vista tascam driver driver.
2.) When the "can't install" error popped up -- I just click OK.
3.) The extracted drivers were installed in the newly created c:\program files (x86)\us224\ folder.
4.) Here I deviated from the impy's instructions. There was no "unknown device" in the "device manager" list. So I plugged in and turned on the Tascam US-224. Windows did its thing "recognizing" the plugged in USB device. I don't remember the messages here (sorry). I then went to the control panel --> device manager and lo and behold there was an "Unknown device" listed.
5.) I right clicked on it, selected "Update Driver Software". I clicked on "Browse My Computer..." since I knew the drivers were in the c:\program files (x86)\us224\ folder.
6.) After that, everything seemed to work as expected.
7.) I am using MME audio "driver mode" for sonar because the laptop built in soundcard couldn't use anything else. When I record, if I have extra latency, I'll try the WDM/KS "driver mode" (this is the one I am using in Sonar on my Vista machine).
I hope I covered everything.
Kevin
P.S. Follow-up: I just recorded a direct plugin electric guitar to the US-224 and I did need to switch away from the MME driver mode to WDM/KS to eliminate the fairly obvious latency in playback. In any case, I was able to add a recorded track to a sonar file using the us-224 in windows 7.
Last edited by Kemmrich; 01/06/12 08:22 AM.
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Here's my simple studio setup using a 42" LG 120hz HD LED TV as a second monitor for either my Dell laptop (Win 7) or Dell desktop(XP).
Was using two 22" monitors but when my old TV died I bought the LG for Xmas at amazon (with the help of some unused Discover air miles).
Extended my computer desk top and added a lazy Susan ($10 at Lowes) so I can spin the TV and watch from the adjoining bedroom. Very handy!
What a great purchase, very easy to setup, super bright screen and no more computer glasses.
Thought of adding a card to use all 3 monitors but find that these two work perfectly.
One obvious note is that a bigger monitor does not translate to a bigger desktop area,ie. no more room for more windows, just a bigger image.
However, can't wait for next Xmas to get a second 42" (maybe 3D by then).
Guess size does matter!
I mostly use BIAB and then Realband for my song writing hobby and production though I have Reaper and Audacity (for creating MP3's mainly)
Other toys include:
Line 6 Toneport UX1 for interface
Shure 5655D Dynamic and AKG Perception 120 Condenser mics
Korg nanoKey midi controller keyboard (OK but not crazy about the key action, may get a Casio
Casio CTK-2100 61 Key Personal Keyboard with New Voice Pad Feature at some point)
Ovation Legend Acoustic Guitar
Yamaha SBG 500 Electric
Misc harmonicas, banjo, tin pans etc
All works quite well for my basic needs and done on a budget over time.
Good luck on your set up.
Carkins
Photo of Studio:http://www.carlkocich.com/MusicStudioPhoto.html
Songs:http://www.carlkocich.com/Music.html
[image]http://www.carlkocich.com/MusicStudioPhoto.html[/image]
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I did the same thing last year and had similar concerns. I stick with desktops because of the available monitor sizes. I picked up a used 32" Sony Bravia for $260 and all I can say is what a revelation. Working with these programs on a screen that size is great. I have a 17" Acer laptop and when I boot that up the screen looks like my cell phone in comparison.
I went for a custom built PC. If you can find a builder in your area then that allows you to do detailed research as to what works best with what. It's all available using Google and various music forums. I'm using the EMU 1820M that requires two dedicated PCi slots and a lot of newer mobo's only have one so that's one example of having something custom built knowing up front what I'm going to need with no surprises later. With a limited budget like you I determined that the AMD Phenom with a Gigabit mobo was the best bang for the buck. The one thing it doesn't have is USB 3 but adapter cards are only 30 bucks or so and I can upgrade any time. The PC in my sig cost me exactly $600 including Win 7 64 Ultimate. Best Buy had a similar HP on sale for $749 last year. Considering how fast PC parts change pricing it's probably less now.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Quote:
I'm a moderator at tascamforums.com and get lots of questions regarding making the driver for the 224 and 428 work in Windows 7. It would be nice to pass on what you have learned.
Keith,
Does the forum end up having any influence with TASCAM itself? As a recent customer of a TASCAM US-800, I'm surprised at their lack of interaction with their customer community and seemingly unconcerned attitude with oddities with their product line.
-Scott
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Think this [url=http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0378290] PowerSpec
B633 Desktop Computer[/url] will get it? # Intel® Core i5-2320 # Microsoft Windows 7 Professional (64-bit) # 8GB DDR3-1333 RAM # 2TB 5,400RPM Hard Drive # SuperMulti DVD±RW Drive # Multi-In-One Memory Card Reader # Intel® HD Graphics 2000 # 10/100/1000 Network # 802.11b/g/n Wireless $500 There's a Dell Inspiron 620-3766 with a 1 TB 7,200-RPM drive for $629, but it hardly seems worth the difference.
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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Absolutely as far as specs are concerned. Just think about your future needs and would that entail opening it up to install a card of some sort. Understand the different types of expansion slots it has or doesn't have and what can and can't be used with them. My EMU 1820M is already an antique, the new ones are all strictly USB so you may never have a need for installing a physical card anymore. I'm such a geek I would find out exactly what mobo is being used and do a bit of Google research to get some opinions on it. Another reason for going custom built is the fact that almost all of the lower priced PC's advertise a great CPU because people understand that but then use a $59 mobo. When you do some reading you find that a $100 one is way better and if you knew the difference you would easily spend the extra $40 for it but in order to get that from a name brand it's not just the mobo, they only put it into their next higher level machine so it costs maybe $700-800 or so. Custom built is the only way to get that killer mobo without paying for the other stuff. This is similar to the way cars are sold, there's one option you really want but you can't get it without buying the whole "Premium Package" for $2,500 or whatever.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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I'm asking because I don't know, people. That's why a write this post as a "newbie." I have no idea how to select a mobo. I feel that I messed up on the last one, else it would still be handling the job. Please say more.
This PC has the core i5 processor, lots of memory, and comes in under the $650 price point mentioned above. Other than that--baseball been berry, berry good to me. Please speak to me on a very basic level here.
Edited to add: The link above gives very detailed information, with the possible exception of the motherboard itself. It does say that it uses the Intel H61 Express Northbridge chipset.
Edited to add: "Express" being code, I suppose, for "el cheapo." I looked at the mobos and CPUs in Micro Center's catalog. It's beyond Greek and clearly assumes much knowledge aforehand.
Last edited by Ryszard; 01/08/12 04:21 PM.
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: VST3 Plugin Support
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Reference this forum post for One-Stop Shopping of our Band-in-a-Box® 2025 Mac Videos — we’ll be adding more videos as they’re released!
Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Mac is Here!
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac is here, packed with major new features and an incredible collection of available new content! This includes 202 RealTracks (in Sets 449-467), plus 20 bonus Unreleased RealTracks in the 2025 49-PAK. There are new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 4, two new sets of “RealDrums Stems,” XPro Styles PAK 8, Xtra Styles PAK 19, and more!
Special Offers
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac with savings of up to 50% on most upgrade packages during our special—available until July 31, 2025! Visit our Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all the purchase options available.
2025 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK Add-ons
We've packed our Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK with some incredible Add-ons! The Free Bonus PAK is automatically included with most Band-in-a-Box® for Mac 2025 packages, but for even more Add-ons (including 20 Unreleased RealTracks!) upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49. You can see the full lists of items in each package, and listen to demos here.
If you have any questions, feel free to connect with us directly—we’re here to help!
Band-in-a-Box 2025 Italian Version is Here!
Cari amici
È stata aggerate la versione in Italiano del programma più amato dagli appassionati di musica, il nostro Band-in-a-Box.
Questo è il link alla nuova versione 2025.
Di seguito i link per scaricare il pacchetti di lingua italiana aggiornati per Band-in-a-Box e RealBand, anche per chi avesse già comprato la nuova versione in inglese.
Band-in-a-Box 2025 - Italiano
RealBand 2025 - Italiano
Band-in-a-Box 2025 French Version is Here!
Bonjour à tous,
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 pour Windows est disponible en Français.
Le téléchargement se fait à partir du site PG Music
Pour ceux qui auraient déjà acheté la version 2025 de Band-in-a-Box (et qui donc ont une version anglaise), il est possible de "franciser" cette version avec les patchs suivants:
BIAB 2025 - francisation
RealBand 2025 - francisation
Voilà, enjoy!
Band-in-a-Box 2025 German Version is Here!
Update Your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 to Build 1128 for Windows Today!
Already using Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Windows®? Download Build 1128 now from our Support Page to enjoy the latest enhancements and improvements from our team.
Stay up to date—get the latest update now!
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