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I read a post this week describing how one can use the piano roll to modify midi sounds through the controller pulldown menu. I was playing with it and my Ketron SD2, and had a basic question. After selecting "Control" from the View/Edit menu, I clicked on one of the pulldown options, "all notes off". In the lower editing window in Piano Roll I drew simple lines going from 0 to 127 and back over several bars. BIAB showed a series of ascending or descending bars corresponding to the line I drew. I then played the song and the bars disappeared and nothing changed. I confess to not having read the manual on how to use the piano roll midi control editor, but shouldn't the bars have remained? Saving the file first prior to playing did not save the edits. Just curious to hear what I did wrong.
Thanks,
Bob aka jazzwombat
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
I read a post this week describing how one can use the piano roll to modify midi sounds through the controller pulldown menu. I was playing with it and my Ketron SD2, and had a basic question. After selecting "Control" from the View/Edit menu, I clicked on one of the pulldown options, "all notes off". In the lower editing window in Piano Roll I drew simple lines going from 0 to 127 and back over several bars. BIAB showed a series of ascending or descending bars corresponding to the line I drew. I then played the song and the bars disappeared and nothing changed. I confess to not having read the manual on how to use the piano roll midi control editor, but shouldn't the bars have remained? Saving the file first prior to playing did not save the edits. Just curious to hear what I did wrong.
Thanks,
Bob aka jazzwombat
I'm not at my music computer at the moment, and I'm not familiar with the option "all notes off"... but try selecting VOLUME and do the same thing as before... draw the volume envelope beneath some midi notes. Go from zero to full volume and back again (remember to leave the volume at a reasonable level, because the volume for the track will stay wherever you left it last in Piano roll. )
You shouldn't have to save the track.. it should change immediately. Just make sure you are editing the right track. If you click on a track to hilight it, THEN go to piano roll, you should be editing the hilited track.
Keep us posted
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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VOLUME adjust worked, so I guess I picked a controller that the SD2 didn't use, so the changes didn't 'stick' in the piano roll. Thanks for the assist.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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All notes off is usually a 'one time' kind of thing. (Once you shut all notes off why would you need to continue to send that message?) Not used as a variable controller, so it makes sense to me it would just insert once and not draw the line.
Last edited by rharv; 01/08/12 08:54 AM.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Quote:
VOLUME adjust worked, so I guess I picked a controller that the SD2 didn't use, so the changes didn't 'stick' in the piano roll. Thanks for the assist.
Haven't checked this, but I'd think that All Notes Off = CC123 = MIDI Panic Button
The Ketron SD2 does indeed recognize this command, as do most all MIDI synths, hardware or software.
However, sending it in the fashion in which you did may not work and even if it did, it may just Reset the synth each time it hits and the synth keeps on truckin' anyway, so you won't hear much difference. If there was a long sustained part involved, like Strings, you may, but there really is no reason to try to invoke this particular CC with the mouse draws.
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
VOLUME adjust worked, so I guess I picked a controller that the SD2 didn't use, so the changes didn't 'stick' in the piano roll. Thanks for the assist.
and thus began JazzWombat's journey into the world of tweaking his MIDI
For those who have devices that can be MIDI controlled (rack gear, some stomp boxes, vocal processors and even some modelling amps) you can use piano roll to completely control those devices. In a live performance situation, if you embed such changes in your sequence, it can free your mind from the task of stomping, turning knobs etc so you can concentrate on playing your instrument.
MIDI is cool. Even if you use all real tracks, if you play them back through RB, you can use MIDI to control external devices. Even lights
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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And it's a cool journey too.  Question for those using the SD2: I think I may have lost my manual. Is there a list of known control commands for the Ketron SD2? (I am searching for the manual and will post this info, if I find it.) Bob aka jazzwombat
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Manual found, but...
I'm completely and utterly confused. (So, what else is new?)
The SD2 manual tells me, for example:
BASS BOOST
F0H 26H 7BH 7DH 00H Boost_gain Freq F7H
Boost_gain - 0-6
Freq = 0-7
Does this information help me when it comes to working with the control feature in BIAB's piano roll editor?
Bob aka jazzwombat
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Quote:
"BASS BOOST
F0H 26H 7BH 7DH 00H Boost_gain Freq F7H"
That looks like a System Exclusive message; written in hexadecimal format (starts with F0H ends with F7H)
This may be a valid message. RealBand addresses these as 'Sysex' (System Exclusive).
The name means what it implies; it is an exclusive message to a described device. It'll work, but only for that device. You won't find this message in piano roll (as far as I know).
System Exclusive messages are best handled in the Event List, (not Piano Roll in my experience) where they can be seen/edited.
MIDI can be quite involved, although it is a simple concept really.
Controllers are pre-defined, sysex is meant for one certain device (be it lights, synth, sampler, guitar effect, vocal effect ..) and can often do something 'special' on that device that is not a standard MIDI controller message.
Research MIDI System Exclusive
Maybe even try it.
MIDI is just information sent on a certain channel. If the device is set to respond to that channel it does what it is told, whether it's just to change sound and play these notes, or to do that and push the whammy bar up, and press harder on the keyboard and change the lights .. it's all just information on a set channel.
Some of it is pre-defined (like the GM soundset) but a lot of it is determined by the receiving device. Otherwise it's just numbers being sent over a set channel ..
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Here's a list of the standard controllers in the format used by real band and most other DAWs: http://www.nortonmusic.com/midi_cc.htmlI don't have a Ketron, but just about all of the synths I've seen use the standard controllers in the same way. The ones marked UNDEFINED are often used by other devices (not synths, usually rack gear or effects) for their own proprietary settings. All continuous controllers (or CCs for short) require two things: 1) a controller number (which defines the MIDI attribute being changed, such as volume or modulation) Think of this as a knob on a device.. you have a separate knob for different functions 2) and a value, which defines how much the attribute is being changed (think of this as the equivalent of how far you turn the knob) The values range from 0 to 127, 0 being off and 127 being turned all the way up to max For example CC 7 value 127 would be volume set to max In piano roll you set the continuous controller from a dropdown list box at the top of the piano roll screen (in the following picture the continuous controller is set to #7, volume) the value is selected in the lower pane (0 at the bottom, 127 at the top) Wherever you click on the time line is where the change will take place. The lines in the bottom pane represent changes in volume at those positions on the time line. As you can see, in this example the volume swells up and down 
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Hey, I know that string track !
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
Hey, I know that string track !
yup... it was easier to swipe yours than it was to make my own.
(you'll have to sue me)
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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