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So the wife, after 2 hours of Bluesette, La vie en rose, Aìnt no sunshine, Moon River etc. says.
Why does Band in a Box have no dynamics. Where`s pp and szff and...
OK, so is this a wish list thing?
Do you think automation can figure that out?
Do you think that they can make an overall track adjust based on a spot one puts in volumes either as in a number or the old fashioned standard notation using p to f?
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Hi John.
From some of your previous posts I gather you use mostly RTs. There are two techniques I've found useful for adding dynamics in RTs.
First is the venerable F5 (bar) settings. There's a setting in the track dropdown where you can tell the track to 'Change by' an amount. I often use that to reduce the volume of an instrument for a few bars before setting 'Back to normal'.
There are also settings for 'Fade (per bar)' and 'Louder (per bar)' that might be useful.
Second, the new RD substyles at any bar really spice up a song. With the aformentioned 'Ain't no Sunshine' I used a lot of changing from 'snare and highhat' to 'snare and bell ride' that really worked well. It totally changed the dynamics of the song.
If you are referring to the odd midi track you might use there are a number of routines that'll modify the dynamics.
I almost always use the 'loosen up start times' command under the soloist/melodist|utilities menu. That makes a midi track seem a whole lot more 'human' by itself.
Then there is the 'humanize part' routine. There you can change the legato (and other parameters) for a phrase. There is also the 'adjust velocity' routine. Applied to just a part of the track it can make something similar to a swell.
Finally, there's the piano roll to edit individual notes and insert bends and other midi commands.
Hope this helps.
BiaB 2013 b366, RB 2013 b4, WinXP Pro SP3, Toshiba M70, 1.8GHz 2GB RAM 100GB HD. Focusrite Saffire 6 USB, Ketron SD2. BiaB Wiki
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I forgot to add, in response to your question as to whether automation could handle some of this, I believe it could. I actually suggested something like this in Peter Gannon's request for midi ideas. As for whether automation could handle that in RTs, well I kind of doubt it. Mainly because RTs already have all the dynamics you'd expect of a live player except the song related dynamics which, of course, the artist could never know.
BiaB 2013 b366, RB 2013 b4, WinXP Pro SP3, Toshiba M70, 1.8GHz 2GB RAM 100GB HD. Focusrite Saffire 6 USB, Ketron SD2. BiaB Wiki
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Break out that Behringer pedal and get inside the manual, John.
*Because BB sends each Track on a different MIDI channel, even the Realtracks respond to MIDI CC7 - Volume and CC11 - Expression.
CC7 is like the Master Volume fader on the board while CC11 acts like one of the channel faders. So if overall CC7 is set to say, 90, invoking a CC11 on a channel means that you have the entire range of 0 to 127 to use, but the overall volume can never exceed the 90 setting of CC7. This is powerful dynamic stuff and with that pedalboard, can be used in realtime when the board is programmed to do such things.
For example, in realtime performance you could set the pedalboard and its expression pedal to send CC11 commands on just one channel that has, say, a realtracks soloist or accompanist on it. Then use your foot in realtime while the song is playing to invoke those dynamics.
Or, the board can be programmed to send the CC11 command simultaneously to more than one of the channels as well, for realtime control of the entire backup band, handy for certain songs in the jazz combo situation.
The use of the PianoRoll view in Band in a Box, setting the little dropdown at the top right to CC7 or CC11 can be used in the same way, by drawing in curves with the mouse along the timeline, yielding a static dynamic flow that can be saved by the song as well, with the playback being the same as programmed every time. (Sometimes I use both methods within the same song, for example, my version of "Java Jive" where there are some basic dynamics changes on the PianoRoll, but I also still use the pedalboard in live performance to allow me to enhance those a bit to fit the performance as well...)
--Mac
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This is generated by my wife. She had a blast with the 7 tunes we played last night. I did lead sheets and I comped and had drums and bass most of the time with Oliver going on most songs doing his thing in Realtracks. Her comment at the end was, 'it was all the same volume you need dynamics.' Wow. And you think you know someone!  So I of course start thinking. I like the ability in Avid, to see the 'track'(s) and click to make a handle, do it 3 times and pull the middle one up and you end up with volume up, volume down. So that is an 'overall' volume, all instruments are doing p, pp, ff, sfz etc. Well maybe not for the latter. Anyway, she's got 2 other things to worry about, we are playing a lot in Mexico, just keys and flute, and we both are playing horns for some ceremonial occasions. I am playing just piano bar stuff 3 nights too. And our Brass Band started up tonight, 12 new pieces, all marches, Aida to Sousa. So with all that this will get a reprieve. Now I am trying to help her find a flute teacher for trills and Celtic 'feel' on the open holes on the flute Matt gave all the advice to help me purchase. I owe him, she loves the flute, but I said she could not let it sleep in the middle. Actually our grandson asked her if she took her new 'toy' to bed with her. LOL He won't be 3 until March, but he's not missing much. I was trying to go back to thinking like a programmer and asking myself, well if the volume level on the bottom slider is there, and you defined p, m, and f as 1/3 1/2 and 2/3 with lesser for pp and more for ff, and then had the program read a marker at bar 10 so that say x beats before the mark start decreasing...etc. I think it's reasonable to suggest, you know, throw the proverbial ca ca against the wall, or see if the spaghetti is done thing. I must say I've been messing with band in a box since 5 inch floppies, and I never found that as an issue. Now I do have a volume pedal with 2 ins and 2 outs, and I could send the box to the pedal. The keyboard is a new Korg and the touch is fine, I can do p or f, but the drummer and bass player don't get it. I can't fire them, they live too far away. Thanks! I'm thinking, and maybe I move the end result to the wishlist. I can't say the latter too well, I have a lisp when my teeth are in the jar cleaning.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Quote:
*Because BB sends each Track on a different MIDI channel, even the Realtracks respond to MIDI CC7 - Volume and CC11 - Expression.
The use of the PianoRoll view in Band in a Box, setting the little dropdown at the top right to CC7 or CC11 can be used in the same way, by drawing in curves with the mouse along the timeline, yielding a static dynamic flow that can be saved by the song as well, with the playback being the same as programmed every time.
--Mac
Mac,
Are you saying we can tweak volume of RealTracks using the Piano Roll ..in Real Band ? How is that done exactly ?
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Mitch if you want dynamics in song you go to Piano Roll >pick All on channels make a small reduction in the over all volume then add the section by clicking on the start and finish points of the section . Then click the start of your section and drag it up or down the whole section moves with it .
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Quote:
Then there is the 'humanize part' routine. There you can change the legato (and other parameters) for a phrase. There is also the 'adjust velocity' routine. Applied to just a part of the track it can make something similar to a swell.
Just to be clear for all BIAB users, these two routines apply for the whole melody track, not for a part of the melody. Requests are already present in the wishlist to get more control over the zone of the melody/soloist to apply the routine (Apply from..to...).
Reach for excellence
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Quote:
Mitch if you want dynamics in song you go to Piano Roll >pick All on channels make a small reduction in the over all volume then add the section by clicking on the start and finish points of the section . Then click the start of your section and drag it up or down the whole section moves with it .
Not following you Tommy  But it's early yet and haven't had my coffee, so I'll read that in a bit and see if I can make more sense out of it. Not sure where I click on the start and end points of the section ? I think I get how to apply the master volume using CC7 at bar -1. I set it to max (127)...but after that, I'm lost... 'splain it again ? (for old hippies ?)
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Quote:
Just to be clear for all BIAB users, these two routines apply for the whole melody track, not for a part of the melody. Requests are already present in the wishlist to get more control over the zone of the melody/soloist to apply the routine (Apply from..to...).
True, but the soloist menu apparently lets you humanize a selected part, so swapping the melody and soloist tracks should do the job. Since the changes are sometimes subtle I can't swear it works as advertised but I have used that function and it did appear to work.
BiaB 2013 b366, RB 2013 b4, WinXP Pro SP3, Toshiba M70, 1.8GHz 2GB RAM 100GB HD. Focusrite Saffire 6 USB, Ketron SD2. BiaB Wiki
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Quote:
the soloist menu apparently lets you humanize a selected part
What menu are you referring to ? In the soloist Menu/Edit Soloist Track, there are 3 Humanize functions, but none can apply the effect on a user selected part of the soloist. They applied for the whole track. Same as for the melody track.
Reach for excellence
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In RB click where you want your dynamics Mitch . Lets say you want the middle verse to be louder than the other verses. Piano Roll and pick All on channels make a small reduction in the over all volume by clicking a little lower than full volume. At the same volume level click the piano roll at the start and end of that verse . Then grab the beginning mark you just drew and drag it up. The whole verse will go up in volume (or down) and it will be easy to adjust.
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For MIDI styles, before speaking CC#7, CC#11 and so on, consider first the raw data inside the styles. For example, the WONDERLD style has constant velocity for the bass part patterns, constant velocity for Guitar part and constant velocity for the strings velocity. SLOWPOP2 has constant velocity for the piano part, all the drums patterns have the same velocity. That is for your information and I let you conclude.
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Quote:
Quote:
the soloist menu apparently lets you humanize a selected part
What menu are you referring to ? In the soloist Menu/Edit Soloist Track, there are 3 Humanize functions, but none can apply the effect on a user selected part of the soloist. They applied for the whole track. Same as for the melody track.
Under Soloist|Edit soloist track the three Humanize menu items read 'Humanize soloist part ' in contrast to the melody which just says 'Humanize melody'. I took that to mean they operate on a selection. In use I never used very radical settings so it seemed to be working.
I just tested the procedure with a radical value (legato change by -90) and you are correct. It does apply the change to the whole track. That's a shame, it would be a useful function to apply to a selection.
The menu names are confusing in this case.
BiaB 2013 b366, RB 2013 b4, WinXP Pro SP3, Toshiba M70, 1.8GHz 2GB RAM 100GB HD. Focusrite Saffire 6 USB, Ketron SD2. BiaB Wiki
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XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
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In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
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Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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