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Hi, I have a serious question. My coach says, in order to become more succesful I need to sing. Thing is, I`ve never sung in my life before (if you don`t include the shower thing, LOL). We`re going to release a Gypsy CD (not a homemade one; we have a label) and there should be 2 or 3 vocal tracks on it. We can`t hire a singer, because it`s supposed to be my project (I`m the leader). Now here`s a demo track of a Kinks song that I`ve covered in our gypsy style: http://www.sandrasherman.com/media/sunny-afternoon_demo.mp3Please be honest. Don`t tell me just good stuff, because you don`t want to hurt my feelings. Personally I think I would need a lot of vocal training to be good enough for the CD. BTW: Bass: BB Realtrack Guitars and Vocals: Me Sandra
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Quote:
Please be honest. Don`t tell me just good stuff, because you don`t want to hurt my feelings. Personally I think I would need a lot of vocal training to be good enough for the CD.
Sandra
Go for it gal, absolutely nothing wrong with your vocal tone which would prevent you from singing. Do work with a vocal teacher to get you breathing, phonics, articulation and confidence up.
Oh, and I expected a much stronger German accent  ?
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Thanks! What does "phonics" mean?
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That's good singing. You have a good ear, pitch is not a problem, that's good. Many who try to pick up singing don't have that advantage. You are already well out in front of many I hear who think that they should be singing in front of people... You also have great timing, phrasing, and best of all, are using AIR to make your sound, moving that air past the vocal chords with a nice, relaxed sounding throat. All of it shows that you have good musical taste. That's 90% of the requirements right there. That said, you have to decide for yourself whether or not you want to put in the time and repetition that it takes to develop that good voice. If it is fun for you, not a problem. But if you should find it to be a task, might be necessary to rethink the situation. Quote:
My coach says, in order to become more succesful I need to sing.
If you find that you LIKE adding the singing to your repertoire, then it is not a problem.
If, however, you find that you do not necessarily like nor want to add singing to your performances, bear in mind that there are *many* successful instrumentalists in the world who do not sing a single note onstage.
If the latter is the case, you may want to consider finding a different coach!
--Mac
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Thanks Mac. Those are some very good points you made. It`s not really that I don`t want to sing, I like it. But as a pro guitarist I can tell the difference between "ok" and a real pro. Maybe I`m a perfectionist...
So I think, I`ll go for the vocal lessons. But it`s good to hear, that there is something there already, because I really wasn`t sure.
Thanks,
Sandra
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Sandra, Here's a little different point of view. Your vocal chops are definitely not up to the high standards of your guitar playing. I agree with your own evaluation when you said: Quote:
Personally I think I would need a lot of vocal training to be good enough for the CD.
You didn’t mention a time table for the release, but only you know if you have the time to take the vocal lessons and have them bear fruit in time for your release.
You also mentioned this:
Quote:
We can`t hire a singer, because it`s supposed to be my project (I`m the leader).
Because it is your project and you are the leader, only you can make the decision to hire a singer. If you want your CD to be the best it can be, and you know a singer, (or singers, since you have 3 vocals), that will make those songs better, there’s nothing wrong with a guest vocalist.
It’s still your project and you are still the leader.
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Thanks Bob, for your honest words.
I know a very succesful Gpysy Band here in Austria. They mix Gypsy music with traditional Viennese music. For about half their songs they have a famous singer on the CD. It became quite succesful. Now, here`s the problem: Every promoter /club owner wants them with the original singer. Now they can only play when the singer`s got time too. They kinda made themself dependant from him.
My CD is due in Autumn, I`ll try to get some vocal lessons before!
Sandra
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Sandra, I think you have the ability to sing, the notes are there. Obviously there are a few pitch problems, and mostly flat not sharp. But many are right. As said the timing is good, and you already know proper phrasing. Some good coaching and hard work it should shape up. Dive in, and sing a lot, work at it as you did with the guitar.
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Don't worry too much, just do it. I waited. Then it's sort of too late. Everyone says 'blues'. Well, I know about 10 or so actual blues songs, and it was never my preference. I'm not much of a coach or critic, but I'll give a listen later. For now my grandson, who will be 3, and my wife who'll be a lot older than that are wearing googles he found, elastic bands on the wrist, (must be id?), and dancing to red hot chili peppers with pink on deck. Not my thing either but he's a dancing fool! Look, the thing is, will others listen? BTW,the local universities music programs have tons of first year people who have the voice, some training, and want to do this kind of thing. I'm mentoring keyboard players, for free, because I have gear, a studio, and want to. I'm officially too old to or lack the desire to go out and hear new acts. I'm in bed by 10 p.m., no matter who's house I'm in... 
John Conley
Musica est vita
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I think adding a few vocal songs to your set (one out of 4 or 5 songs) would make the set more interesting (more variety) for the audience. I say take the lessons and be the best you can be.
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Sandra...go for it ! Put in the time with the coach. You make a great point about 'guest artists'...then the hiring venue want's that guy or gal and you're in a corner. Do it yourself. You've got a great head-start. A few pitch issues, but most singers do, so just do it... assuming you have the desire and committment to develop and get better.
I'd like to hear this same tune down a whole step maybe. Times in the tune when you're pushing your range. Go lower keys until you gain a bit more upper range ?
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Sandra,
As stated by many above you are already ahead of the curve, especially with phrasing, which in my humble opinion, other than staying on key is the most important part of any vocal. Heck phrasing is also, again in my ears anyway, is what separates many musicians from the pack even with instrumentals. With this said my first choice would be for you to go for it and with the help of your vocal coach do the vocals 100% yourself. Second choice, and only if you are not yet comfortable carrying the vocals yourself, would be to use another singer but also include your own vocals even if in some minor way as a duet or in a background role for starters.
But the bottom line is that you and only you can make that decision.
Break A Leg!
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Sandra, I'm sorry but I have to agree with Bob. Your singing (on this recording) is not up to your (high) playing standard. In my opinion you have two options: 1: Hire a singer. You hire other musicians and a singer is nothing more or less than that. It does not mean you are no longer the bandleader (think Moonlight Shadow by Mike Oldfield) You want (and need) this level of vocals Vaya Con Dios - Johnny2: Learn to sing yourself. Find a good vocal coach and work hard. You know the drill... Yes, your singing is good enough for karaoke-bars and the odd gig for friends with a hobby band. It is not that bad. But please don't do this right now at your normal gigs. It will bring the high quality of your gigs and your music down. I hope you know I don't write this to bring you down.
Last edited by Mike sings; 02/19/12 04:01 PM.
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Sandra, I also say go for it! You are one fantastic guitarist and now you are also a very good singer. As suggested you could go to a vocal instructor to take you over the top, not that it is all that far for you! That is the route I would go if I have a voice like yours. The other option is to use pitch correction, as noted your were a little pitchy, but be it far from someone like me with no vocal chords what so ever to criticize. Personally with a voice like yours I would take Mac’s advice and get a good vocal instructor. I also agree with Jazzmandan as I didn’t hear a foreign, at least foreign to me , accent! Ps, now I’m even a bigger fan of yours!
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Hi, Sandra: I would like to offer a little perspective, and perhaps soften the blows you have just received...  I like your voice, there's a lot of promise there, but I would agree, maybe not for a CD right now. BUT... it really depends upon your time horizon, that is, how soon you want to record. If you have some lead time, weeks or months, then, by all means, sing as much as you can at your gigs, in the shower, etc., and I will bet that with practice and increased confidence, you will be CD-ready in a few weeks or months. Good, luck, and do not give up... (I have been listening a lot to Eliane Elias, who, IMO, is not a natural singer, yet, she is very effective.) Besides, since when do Gypsies required trained voices?
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Quote:
Sandra, I'm sorry but I have to agree with Bob. Your singing (on this recording) is not up to your (high) playing standard. In my opinion you have two options:
1: Hire a singer. You hire other musicians and a singer is nothing more or less than that. It does not mean you are no longer the bandleader (think Moonlight Shadow by Mike Oldfield) You want (and need) this level of vocals Vaya Con Dios - Johnny
2: Learn to sing yourself. Find a good vocal coach and work hard. You know the drill...
Yes, your singing is good enough for karaoke-bars and the odd gig for friends with a hobby band. It is not that bad. But please don't do this right now at your normal gigs. It will bring the high quality of your gigs and your music down.
I hope you know I don't write this to bring you down.
I agree with Mike. Too much space at this point between the level of expertise of your playing & singing however I personnally think that as a pro musician you'll get were you need to be if you want.You know what's needed.One thing to take into account. I doubt anyone ever told Sinatra he needed to learn to play guitar. So.........
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Sandra,
I want to weigh in by saying that I really like your voice! The melody to your song was not easy for a vocalist... it had a lot of steps that require a precise landing, and you handled them very well.
In my opinion vocals don't have to be perfect if they are presented with enough style to make them interesting and musical. You have a very styistic approach to singing, and for me it works. You already sound better than most of the live acts I've heard performing locally.
As already mentioned, there is a different standard for singing live and singing on a CD. I think you have a GREAT live voice... but it does err on the side of style rather than pitch perfection. Once you commit the song to a permanent record, there's always the chance that you'll look back later and wish it had been perfect.
There are many possibilities, but considering the following facts:
1) you ARE a perfectionist...
2) you DO plan to take lessons...
3) you will be singing in live performances as well...
my recommendation is to go ahead and sing on your CD, then use Melodyne to clean up any aspect of the performance that does not meet your high professional standard. As you take voice lessons, you'll grow into the CD performance. When you perform live for people who have heard the CD, they will recognize that you are the same person who sang on the CD.
Good luck in your project! You are a very talented person, and I have great respect for your various abilities!
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Hi, Sandra - First of all, I really enjoyed that. What I heard in your voice was nervousness because I don't think you believe you can do it yet. As was said, practice, practice, practice. You'll get more comfortable with it and it will flow more naturally.
But for me, I'd buy your CD.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 12TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 12TB SATA BB2026/UMC204HD&404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/Notion/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com (under rehosting/construction)
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I hear 2 things. One is that you don't believe you can sing. I sensed that you were kind of holding back. Belt it out to the back row and just let it rip.
Back when I played regularly I was the 2nd singer in my band. Since I took 18 years off, I lost it. I don't sing anywhere like I used to. But you know what? Critics be damned. It took me a long time to decide where I stood about it, and it took many people to tell me this, but this is my voice, I don't get to exchange it for another one, and damn it, I am going to sing. End of discussion.
Just be careful to pick a key that fits your range, continue to work with your coach to expand your range and work on your breathing.
I hear the native ability and the talent in there. Stay at it.
PS I wonder if you would do something for us. Would you sing something in your native language and post it? I wonder if maybe singing in English is making your brain work in too many directions at once. Just a thought.
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Hi Sandra,
I enjoyed the track. My observation is that as the track progressed you were running short of breath which contributed to your slight pitch problems
You may need to work on building up your wind, especially on a song of that type.
I wish you well.
Don S.
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