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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Hi I'm going to be starting on a recording project in about a week and I'm trying to decide if i should use Jamie Aebersold CD's as my backing tracks or BIAB as my backing tracks. both have there advantages. Jamie Aebersolds seem more live but i have total control with BIAB. Can you guys talk about the advantages and disadvantages that each one has. And Which would you use for a recording project and why? Thank you.
A little more about the project. I'm a huge jazz fan. I like the real hard core jazz. so this project is definitely all about jazz. I haven't played consistently every day for about a year and a half so its kind of a come back project. to reestablish myself as a JAZZ IMPROVISER. That's what I do. I Improvise. So this is about Jazz and about improvisation. I want the CD to sound great. so what should i take into consideration when thinking about which of these two different types of backing tracks to use? Thank you.
Last edited by Fishb0bb; 02/24/12 05:14 PM.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2007
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Expert
Joined: May 2007
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It's been a while since I used the Aebersold but...
Several factors to consider:
- What instrument are you playing? If I remember, Aebersold has the piano on one channel and the other instruments on both. If you play piano, you can pan the piano out. If you play sax, guitar, etc, the tracks will back you beautifully.
- Aebersold tracks are fixed in tempo, length and key. BIAB can change these easily.
- You will have a learning curve to climb using BIAB. None with Aebersold.
- Aebersold tracks are recorded in real time in it's entirety. BIAB tracks are pieced together using a max of 8 bars. There are some complaints about how the resulting tracks sound phrase-wise.
- Does Aebersold have the songs you want?
Hope this helps.
R
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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The major consideration for me is that other players will recognize the Abersold tracks, and that's not good. If you submit to a contest or reviewer, they will say, "Oh yeah, that again".
BIAB will generate unique parts for you to play over.
I also don't know if there are licensing issues with re-recording over Abersold tracks. If you go that route, check that out first. We know it is no problem with BIAB tracks.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I play trumpet. I have limited range but im good with chord changes. With the aebersolds i get some good songs that i personally want to record over, songs that catch my fancy. my biggest thing is with BIAB its just one volume of sound and i haven't figured out how to add the little nuances. I need it to sound real. But i like everything else about BIAB. but who after listening to my a CD for 6min straight with little in the way of real volume changes (if i use BIAB). Volume changes that sound natural and not forced. I know BIAB has a Volume ajdustment but last time it used it it didnt sound like the real thing at all.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jan 2007
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Journeyman
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Journeyman
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Hi, Fish
I asked Jamie a similar question a couple years ago, related more to live playing, and here is the response I received. You can make your own judgement as far as how to use them... there seems to be a wide gray area. He makes some solid points without coming down hard or legalistic.
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Letter from J. Aebersold
"Hello,
As you might guess, we get asked quite often for permission to use our jazz tracks in live performances. Here are a few points to keep in mind:
1. We can not give anyone permission to perform a particular copyrighted composition. We only license these songs ourselves, so the permission is not ours to give. For any recording or public performance with either a live group or a play-a-long, you should contact the copyright holder.
2. The legendary musicians on our play-a-longs recorded the tracks with the trust that they would be used primarily for educational/practice purposes,so please keep that in mind and try to honor that trust.
3. In the past 40 years we have made great strides in improving the quality of rhythm sections around the world so that you don't have to consider play-a-longs as your first resort, but we also realize it can be difficult to find competent live rhythm sections in many parts of the country and that the temptation to use play-a-longs is very strong.
4. These play-a-long CDs were designed to make musicians better, not unemployed. Please think LIVE musicians first, whenever possible.
I hope you can understand our official position. Thank you for your interest and good luck.
Jamey Aebersold Jazz, Inc. "
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2007
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Expert
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Not knowing how well you know BIAB or what version...
BIAB has A/B part markers. Many of the Midi styles use different volume levels for the markers. The A markers are usually 'quieter' and B are 'busier'. The RealTracks also have variations A/B, Simple, Very Simple, etc.
Matt has a good point about the Aebersold arrangements sound the same each time. But if you put a BIAB arrangement on CD, it will sound the same each time also.
R
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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OP
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I know BIAB enough to get around. I have verson 2012.
Last edited by Fishb0bb; 02/24/12 05:52 PM.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Certainly, for practicing, I decided many years back that BIAB was far superior to Jamey Aebersold or other Play-Alongs. Moreover, that was before the advent of RealTracks! Key, tempo, number of choruses and jazz style were four key factors in this decision. However, I do not think a recording project using either medium is going to give you the necessary spontaneity and interplay from the rhythm section or other frontline members - the best recording sessions, anyway. For jazz, it is essential that that every member of a band reacts to what the other musicians are playing. Recordings and computer programs just lack the emotional response you need for a proper jazz performance, either live or in the recording studio. Best you get some real musicians to play with you. However, if the project is just to prove that you can improvise, then BIAB is suitable. I do not think it is a steep learning curve to create backing tracks. In fact, our local music shop recently had some courses on how to do this with BIAB and they only went for an hour and a half. Not that even we long-time users have it all down and some of the subtleties do take a little longer to master. 
Grah Jive Talk
"Don't worry baby, they'll swing their arses off."
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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OP
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It's just for fun I'm not professional. its just a serious hobby for me  If you would like to hear me play by the way go to this link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZxAszxZitQ thank you
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Journeyman
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Journeyman
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Fish, I would go with BIAB...especially RealTracks. You can be just as creative with them, as you are with your own playing.......so in effect your other "musos" are playing just what you want!  regards Joe G.
Last edited by Joe Gordon; 02/25/12 05:50 AM.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Nice playin' man. And that's from a fellow jazz trumpeter.
Use Band in a Box, no question.
Aebersold stuff is nice, but not so nice when the target is your own recording. For one reason, the Aebersold recordings are so widely known now that as soon as the track starts to play, it is a dead giveaway.
Band in a Box and Realtracks, on the other hand, can turn in a performance that will have other musicians asking you who participated on the date - and how you were able to get such musicians.
73
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
It's just for fun I'm not professional. its just a serious hobby for me If you would like to hear me play by the way go to this link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZxAszxZitQ thank you
I'm a trumpet player, too (but mostly pop). Most excellent playing, IMO. Great tone and control! Tuning is very good along with nice dynamics and blending. I'm very impressed!
Stan
Cornet Curmudgeon
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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OP
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Thank you
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Fishb0bb,
I see your website is Jordanriverjazz. Are you close to the Jordan in Mississippi?
R
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2011
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OP
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no im not acaully. and my site doesnt work anymore sorry 
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I agree with other people here. If you can't hire professional musicians, BIAB is the perfect tool for you.
Latest BIAB version, latest build.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Jamie Aebersold CD's are very limited but Biab is not. That's some good trumpet playing Jordan, maybe you should go on past hobbyist to pro.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Newbie
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I had the same exact idea some years back (i.e., recording myself using Jamey Aebersold tracks as my backing band) and contacted the Aebersold company to find out about the legalities. They told me in no uncertain terms that using their tracks for any recordings that might be released to the public was forbidden. After thinking about it, I didn't really blame them, as this could lead to a prickly situation where some of the world-class jazz artists who record the Aebersold stuff could find themselves listed as "sidemen" on recordings by very amateurish players.
Of course, if you use their tracks, don't make a fuss about it, and your playing is not an embarrassment, I'm not sure how much motivation they'd have to do anything about it.
That all said, I join in the vote to use the RealTracks. They should work fine for straightforward rhythm section backing. If you need something with a lot of subtlety, dynamics, and interplay, like Wayne Shorter's stuff or early Wynton Marsalis, that would be more of a challenge.
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The big difference between Aebersold and Biab is the Aebersold players know what song they're doing so the chord changes and transitions are much smoother and more coherent than the Biab parts are. That's good but the bad part is you're stuck with just that one version.
I just pulled up Lament from my Biab Real Book one directory and used the BalFred RT style. It's pretty close to your youtube recording except for the piano part. The piano in your recording is considerably more fluid because of course the player knows what song it is ahead of time while Miles Black has to play generic stuff that could fit all kinds of changes. In spite of that the Biab version sounds pretty darn good right out of the box so to speak. I haven't tweaked it at all. You say you're fairly familiar with Biab but do you know you can mix and match those RT's any way you want? You're not limited to what any given style gives you. You can pick a different ballad bass to go with that piano or use a midi piano instead of the RT one. You might want the B3 ballad organ instead of the piano too. That would change the whole feel of it. I've found that a midi part can be better than an RT one in some cases but I have very good synths. If you're using a cheesy synth then the midi piano won't sound so hot.
All these choices is why, to me at least, Biab is a better way to go. You can do Lament in about 10 different ways using styles and then grabbing different parts within any style. You could do a pretty cool version using some of the modern smooth jazz styles too.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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