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Journeyman
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It seems to me that the computer based recording software is reaching a saturation point.
Matt and I use sonar x 1 as, I assume, a few others here.
So I realize what keeps all these companies cruising a long are the faithful upgraders year after year.
Personally I always want what ever the latest and greatest version of that software might be.
I'm beginning to wonder what usable improvements are left?
If the big boys are all scrambling to clutter things up how long will it be until that new version isn't quite as attractive?
It gets harder to justify new hardware as it seems to be discontinued in a relatively short time.
Luckily for p g the well of you realtracs is just about bottomless.
WSS
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The real answer, of course, is new power and revenue enhancement. *mwa-ha-ha-ha-ha*
Nuendo, Cubase's big brother, is a complete AV production suite comparable to Sony Vegas. They manage to come up with enough enhancements that every couple of years they can charge $1500 or more for an upgrade to the latest and greatest version.
Many of their improvements have to do with taking advantage of processing power. Since version 2 users have been able to run it on networked PCs. Now that an individual machine can have 64 Gb or more of RAM I'm not sure that's necessary, but more is always better, right?
Another thing is being able to handle new file formats. There's always something.
I'll have to ask a friend, a dedicated amateur who is currently on version 4, what makes him keep at it. I know that between versions 2 and 3 they changed their sequencer file format to something that wasn't backwards compatible, so if you were transferring files with friends or co-creators who upgraded you had to have the new version. I do know that it is an extremely stable and robust DAW. Has to be when you're working in a professional production environment.
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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Not to worry, Microsoft is pretty much guaranteed to up the performance ante (or the bloatware ante, if you will) by introducing those entirely new Operating Systems that will no longer allow you to run the DAW software and/or the audio interface that you already own...
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Here's hoping that Windows 8 will accept Windows 7 drivers for my Tascam, since Tascam has announced they will no longer support the equipment model I have.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Quote:
Not to worry, Microsoft is pretty much guaranteed to up the performance ante (or the bloatware ante, if you will) by introducing those entirely new Operating Systems that will no longer allow you to run the DAW software and/or the audio interface that you already own...
It is my hope that consumers will take a more responsible position in the computer audio world. Ultimately, the consumer determines the course of development of a product - to put it in simple terms: if we ain't buying, hardware/software producers will soon take action to find out what it is we will buy.
Marketers and advertisers do their best to influence the consumer, frequently employing unethical means, but it is well within the ability of any person to do some research and separate hype/nonsense from useful information.
From a more positive perspective... if we make it clear that we want solid value (and will accept no substitute), ethical members of the computer music industry will be happy to comply - and their advertising costs will drop dramatically, thus lowering the price of their wares.
Everybody wins. 
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Thing is though - why throw out perfectly good computer/interface/software just to keep up with the latest. My main music and video computer is still a Core2Quad and it runs everything perfectly - as long as it does and I produce my end result i.e. CD or DVD who cares how I got there. I reached saturation point with VSTi's and VST effects a long time ago. I mean - how many compressors, equalisers, reverb units etc do I really need. The same with VSTi's - unless a new synth is radically different - why bother? I must be the kind of guy the sales people hate! I refuse to make myself poorer just to have the newest for the sake of having the newest and impressing my friends, neighbours, whoever. That being said, I do fly along with the latest from PG Music twice a year - I feel BIAB is worth it. I will not upgrade to Windows 8, I will not buy any new computers until something breaks and I am forced to. I will not upgrade just to satisfy the CPU and memory needs of the latest VST plugin either. And half the time buying a new computer means a new sound card due to missing PCI slots (some new motherboards do not have them). I still have an old HP Vectra 486/25 computer with an AWE32 Soundblaster card and a Roland MPU-401AT card with daughterboard installed in it which still runs OK on a mixture of DOS and Windows 95. All my very old software i.e. BIAB ver 2.0, Cakewalk 4.0 for DOS, Cakewalk 3 for Windows et al. I have a whale of a time with the old stuff and I can still use it to make music. So Matt as long as your Tascam works with Windows 7 - why upgrade? Kevin
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Thanks Kevin, I agree, I will not upgrade unless/until I know my current equipment works. In fact, my production computer for music is older than yours, a Core 2 Duo that I built. It's fine.
I was forced to upgrade from Vista to Windows 7 because of instability issues that were solved in Windows 7 64-bit. At the time, Tascam refused to release the Windows 7 driver that we knew already existed from Frontier Design. A dogged but respectful user campaign was able to overcome this, but Tascam declared 'never again'.
As a former computer science prof, I like to keep up with the newest things so I can give advice to family and friends, and sometimes here online. That doesn't mean I will upgrade on my machines that work as intended, only on a spare test machine.
Oh - and salesmen? I drive them crazy too, for a variety of reasons. I actually managed the first retail computer center in northern New York in 1980, so I have some experience on both sides of this.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Matt, are you using a US224? If so, Ryzsard is looking for Win7 64 bit drivers for his. The reason I suspect that's the model is because of the Frontier Design mention - wasn't the US224 the only TASCAM/Frontier combined product?
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Enquiring minds seriously want to know.
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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Tascam FW-1884. About $1,300 new in 2004. It's a sound card, mixer and control surface.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Hey that just dawned on me. I am about to pull the trigger on a sweetwater creation station 450. Maybe I should wait until windows 8 is up and actually running. It's going to really ***** me off if roland doesn't support the V 700 system.
WSS
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Sweetwater should be able to tell you if your proposed equipment purchase works in Windows 8 beta.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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I guess I could bloviate for awhile on this topic, but I'll just say that forced upgrades really tick me off.
Stan
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Not a conspiracy, Stan, but simply the ramifications of what happens with emerging technology.
Some day these things will likely be mature, or at least nonchanging over longer periods of time, but I wouldn't recommend waiting until that day before going ahead and working with what we already have.
Just a decade or so ago, dong what we take for granted, multitracking, effects, editing, etc. was a very large dollar investment only available in studios $$$. When comparing that to the price of new recording software or new puter and new sound device, it is pennies on the dollar no matter the perception.
--Mac
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Quote:
Not a conspiracy, Stan, but simply the ramifications of what happens with emerging technology.
Some day these things will likely be mature, or at least nonchanging over longer periods of time, but I wouldn't recommend waiting until that day before going ahead and working with what we already have.
Just a decade or so ago, dong what we take for granted, multitracking, effects, editing, etc. was a very large dollar investment only available in studios $$$. When comparing that to the price of new recording software or new puter and new sound device, it is pennies on the dollar no matter the perception.
--Mac
Hi Mac. I'm not a conspiracy whacko. You make a good point about the decline in prices over the years. I'm not against progress either. In fact I just got a new system that's lightning faster than my 6 yr old laptop. I keep reading allusions of those who are waiting in the wings for Win 8 and I think to myself, "Won't there always be something about to emerge on the tech scene?". I can't help but reflect on all the 32 bit programs that I'm running on my Win 7 64 bit system. I have to admit that I'm trying not to think about win 8 right now.
We both know that money talks and BS walks. I remember when Quicken decided to change their file extension which forced everyone to buy their new program--and some of us didn't even like or want it. My credit union dropped it and has never looked back. Of course I do very little online banking with them now. Personally, I think the tech industry has taken on the mantle of produce or perish--both hardware and software. I'm not a state-of-the-art geek, but I no longer have any floppies either. If you stop to think, it really is incredible that our society is so involved in tech stuff as compared to even less than 10 years ago.
Stan
Cornet Curmudgeon
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I use a Dual core With XP Pro, it rocks me for around 20 + tracks with plenty of power for VSTi's, VST's. It processes tracks fast, and easy with RTs and RDs galore. I refuse to rush to the latest. I watch folks jump to 64 bit, and then spend countless hours fighting drivers, and such. Nope Not here. When the system begins to bog down i will upgrade to a reasonable level. My daw is 9 months old, I bought the parts a geeks.com, and built it myself, the one i replace is 10 year old XP system that actually still runs fine, just a tad slow.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
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It applies to all consumer items, which is just what computers have become. In fact there is probably a better life time line on some computers than say cars, or general electrical appliances. You're not going to scour the tech press for the latest toaster, but is you need some spare part for it, forget it. Most things these days are made on batch order, full stop. The next batch could be completely different, and is normally not the same quality as the first one anyway. There is of course a market for custom built equipment, but I for one am not in that range. On some stuff even the manufacturer of a follow up batch is different, and when the spares run out, that's it. Either you make your own or you buy a new one. It annoys me as well when I have to buy a new sound card just because the laptop manufacturers have deemed that PCMCIA is not worth the trouble of installing in new models. On the other hand I think we invest too much emotion in our computers and gear.
The only reason I am changing my computer is that it is so slow that it can't do Realband and Realtracks properly, let alone the Amp-Sim I bought. Otherwise it still runs perfectly after 6 years.
Chris
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When you take into account the R&D time involved, the products currently on the shelves already have 2 or 3 new generations heading toward production. Some call it planned obsolescence. Couple that with the rapid advances in technology and we soon realize the pressure being exerted on manufacturing to meet demands for "the newest and best - the latest and greatest" in new products. In my humble opinion, the market is being driven by teens and early 20s consumers which is creating many interesting techno gadgets. We all benefit by those gadgets. Example: Nearly everyone in this nursing home, including those in their 90s, seems to have a cell phone and many have GPS although they aren't going anywhere. They use them to find the dining hall I guess. LOL
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"Planned Obsolescence" is a tired old 60s term that just does not fly in the face of digital developments.
As with the air/aerospace revolution, the digital tachnology revolution is driven almost entirely by Resarch and Development which is proofed by actual consumer acceptance or rejection of each new idea.
--Mac
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