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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2004
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OP
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I did a search but didn't come up with much. My question is if you're running BIAB from a lap top pc...with a sound card that obviously sucks...and aren't happy with the VCS or Forte software synths...what is the best external sound module/synth you guys are using other than the $400+ models sold by PG?
I'm looking to spend a couple hundred bucks...but I want it to sound REALLY good...if not GREAT.
THANKS!!!!
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Expert
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It would help if we knew what sounds you are looking for. You may want to look into soundfonts. There are plenty out there and some sound great. HERE is a starting point. Be sure to check out the Links for Soundfonts.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
I did a search but didn't come up with much. My question is if you're running BIAB from a lap top pc...with a sound card that obviously sucks...and aren't happy with the VCS or Forte software synths...what is the best external sound module/synth you guys are using other than the $400+ models sold by PG?
I'm looking to spend a couple hundred bucks...but I want it to sound REALLY good...if not GREAT.
THANKS!!!!
actually, $400 is pretty inexpensive for a reasonably good sounding hardware synth. The Ketron 2 can be had for less than $400
http://www.musiciansbuy.com/Ketron-SD2-S...2KETRONKIT.html
But now that a lot of people are abandoning their hardware synths for soft synths, you will probably see some bargains on craig's list and Ebay. Search for phrases like "Synth module" or "GM Synth"
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p5197.m570.l1311&_nkw=synth+module&_sacat=619
bear in mind that even the best synth (software or hardware) sounds best when the Midi is tweaked with continuous controllers that help to add nuance. The Forte can produce some very good sounds for $40 if you take time to tweak the controllers. Conversely, even a $3,000 synth can sound less than satisfying if you don't
Have you listened to the synth comparisons here on the PGMusic web site?
http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/showflat.p...;gonew=1#UNREAD
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 392
Journeyman
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OP
Journeyman
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 392 |
THANKS for the great information Pat. I'm trying to set up BIAB on an older Dell laptop running on XP because there seem to be some issues running 2010 on Win 7. Correct?
I am going to upgrade to 2012.5 when it is issued. Will it be fully Win 7 compatible?
If so, maybe I'll just s...can the old Dell and buy a new laptop with a premium sound card and a much faster CPU and lots more RAM than my current 512K.
Probably wouldn't cost much more than the $400+ I'd have to pay for an external synth.
THANKS!
Jim
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I like external synthesizers myself for a few reasons:
- Zero latency (for all practical purposes) most hardware modules have a latency of about 5ms, software synths can have much more latency (up to almost a half second for the worst of the lot)
- The similar latency in external synths allow for mixing synths. If the bass sounds best on one module and the guitar on another - no problem - use them both - with similar latencies the tracks will be in sync
- Hardware synths don't go obsolete. I'm still using the Roland MT-32 that I bought to use with my Atari/ST computer back in the 1980s. It works with all MAC CPUs/OSs and all versions of the PC from DOS to Win7 (and I'm sure Win8). I've added quite a few synth modules since the Atari days, but there are still a couple of great sounds on the old modules. Software synths can go obsolete when the OS is upgraded and have gone obsolete
- Hardware synths do not tax the computer's CPU which means there is less chance of crashing the computer on the gig
- Reliability - I've never had a hardware synth fail, the one I bought in the 1980s still works like it did when it was new (I did have a sampler fail once - but it had moving parts - a floppy disk drive (anybody remember floppy disks?)
Another option for you might be to record your backing tracks and play them as mp3 files on the gig. There are many ways of doing this, the way I do it is here http://www.nortonmusic.com/backing_tracks.html - you can take what you want and leave the rest. Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton  Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 716
Journeyman
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Journeyman
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You should be able to pick up a JV1010 for next to nothing. I have had one for 10 years and it still sounds great.
I agree with Bob Norton and much prefer a sound module for all the reasons he states.
Tony
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Don't overlook MIDI keyboards, YAMAHA and even CASIO have some great sounding samples available for lower cash outlay due to mass production and popularity, plus you get the keyboard that can be used with BIAB as well.
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Dec 2003
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Roland Sound Canvas models are available on eBay, but seem to have held their value pretty well. They have some really nice sounds, and some models function as a mini-mixer. I still love my Ketron SD-4 for the best acoustic sounds.
Jan - 12 Core AMD Ryzen 9 3900X
32GB DDR4
Win 10 64-bit
Samsung m.2 SSD Boot drive,other SSD internal and USB drives.
MOTO 2
Ketron SD4,SD1000
Yamaha RX-v381amp
VB-Audio virtual cables
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
Don't overlook MIDI keyboards<...snip...>
--Mac
My old Korg i3 has some wonderful sounds in it. I don't use it as a keyboard much anymore, but I often use it as a sound module.
Quote:
Roland Sound Canvas models are available on eBay, but seem to have held their value pretty well. They have some really nice sounds, and some models function as a mini-mixer. I still love my Ketron SD-4 for the best acoustic sounds.
--PhillyJazz
Many of the voices on my old Roland SC-55 Sound Canvas hold up very well (and are light-years better than that VSC software module). I have only had a few Sound Canvas modules, but the best one I have is the Edirol SD90. It has an excellent collection of voices, some of them can be coaxed to sound quite realistic.
I haven't had the pleasure of a Ketron, but it's on my wish list (I gig for a living and play sax, guitar, flute, wind synthesizer, keyboard synth, bass and drums so my GAS is multiplied more than my income is <grin>)
One thing to keep in mind is that no one sound module has all the best sounds. One might have a great Stratocaster sound but a lame tenor sax. Another might have a great sax but lousy organs. But this is OK because as you go through the years, you can collect multiple synth modules and use the best voices of each for the particular tune you are doing.
But the point is for you to try to listen to the sound module you purchase with a sequence (or BiaB file) featuring the instruments that are most important to you. That way the instruments you use most will have the best sounds.
Notes ♫
Brand new 2012.5 updates from Norton Music:- 2 new style disks for Band-in-a-Box
- 2 new free (with a purchase) fancy intro/ending disks for Real Band and other DAW's
- The Ultimate Gospel Fake Disk
- The Real Rock Fake Disk (plenty of classic rock in this one)
- The Beatles Fake Disk
- And an updated Christmas Fake Disk
Hundreds of Free .sgu and .mp3 demos for the above at: http://www.nortonmusic.com
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Bob mentioned an Edirol SD90. I had the SD80, which had the exact same sounds, just not the audio interface. I loved mine, too, and only changed it for the Roland Fantom X because it had the same and more sounds, and expandability. So if you're looking for an SD90 and find an affordable SD80, it will work the same for playing MIDI.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 27
Enthusiast
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Enthusiast
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Posts: 27 |
Don't overlook the very trusty Roland jv1080. Very programable and very well regarded. You can get used for as little as 100.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2004
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Journeyman
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OP
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THANKS guys for all the great feedback. But let's say for whatever reasons...good or bad...I elect to restrict my tracks to only the sampled RealTracks.
In that event it is my understanding that there is no midi output so whatever midi driver is selected is irrelevant and would be overridden by the VSC or Forte sofware synths I have installed....AND...therefore...do I assume correctly that playing through an external sound module would also be irrelevant? I.E. that the Real Tracks samples just go THRU the module and aren't enhanced or detracted from by doing so?
Sorry to be such a dunce on all this.
THANKS!
Jim
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,616
Expert
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Expert
Joined: May 2007
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The RealTracks and RealDrums are audio only and have nothing to do with an external or internal sound module (Midi). The quality is limited by your computer sound card and whether you get the the Audiophile version of RealTracks. For most applications, the built-in sound card and regular RealTracks should be just fine. The exception is if you want to produce studio-quality tracks.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Journeyman
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@Notes:
One of the very cool things about the Ketron SD4 is that you can hook it up to your computer and tweak the user banks. Because you can layer three sounds, you can have, for example, a bari, tenor and alto playing 1,5 and b7 that will work over minor or dominant 7th chords. Also 4ths is pretty cool. One of my favorites is brass in octaves with a dixieland trumpet on top that puts a shake after a few seconds of a sustained note. Sounds killer for a big band brass effect. Also, you can group your woodwinds, brass, strings etc. so your banks are all in categories. It's a little pricey @ around $700 or so, but great for live gigs where you can't necessarily schlep a computer with you.
Jan - 12 Core AMD Ryzen 9 3900X
32GB DDR4
Win 10 64-bit
Samsung m.2 SSD Boot drive,other SSD internal and USB drives.
MOTO 2
Ketron SD4,SD1000
Yamaha RX-v381amp
VB-Audio virtual cables
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jul 2000
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You're trying to give me GAS aren't you? (Gear Acquisition Syndrome) It's working  Notes ♫ Brand new 2012.5 updates from Norton Music:- 2 new style disks for Band-in-a-Box
- 2 new free (with a purchase) fancy intro/ending disks for Real Band and other DAW's
- The Ultimate Gospel Fake Disk
- The Real Rock Fake Disk (plenty of classic rock in this one)
- The Beatles Fake Disk
- And an updated Christmas Fake Disk
Hundreds of Free .sgu and .mp3 demos for the above at: http://www.nortonmusic.com
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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I still have an OLD Yamaha FB-01 sound module and an OLD Roland MT-32 sound module. I don't even REMEMBER when I got those things but I can't get rid of them. Certain sounds just sound better than anything I have. A couple of the older school pianos in the Yamaha and 2 of the strings on the Roland. All these Ensoniq boards I have, and I still go back to the 80s for those old modules.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2004
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Journeyman
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OP
Journeyman
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Quote:
The RealTracks and RealDrums are audio only and have nothing to do with an external or internal sound module (Midi). The quality is limited by your computer sound card and whether you get the the Audiophile version of RealTracks. For most applications, the built-in sound card and regular RealTracks should be just fine. The exception is if you want to produce studio-quality tracks.
THANKS! But with a crappy internal sound card on an older laptop,
it's pretty much "garbage out" regardless of any software synth in use right?
Best,
Jim
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,470
Veteran
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Quote:
I still have an OLD Yamaha FB-01 sound module and an OLD Roland MT-32 sound module. I don't even REMEMBER when I got those things but I can't get rid of them. Certain sounds just sound better than anything I have. A couple of the older school pianos in the Yamaha and 2 of the strings on the Roland. All these Ensoniq boards I have, and I still go back to the 80s for those old modules.
There are some absolutely great sounds in my Korg DS8 and a couple of nice ones left in my Yamaha TH81z. Both are FM synthesis which won't make it for a general purpose sound module, but for the good things they do, they do it well.
True the new sound modules I have do some great things that the old ones do not, and if I were to have to limit myself to one of the ones I currently own, it would be the SD90, but I'd miss some of those old sounds.
But fortunately, I don't have to give up the old sounds, I just add the new ones. My sequencer will support 16 sound modules and if I needed more, there are ways to do that as well.
So now when I sequence a new tune, I have thousands of voices at my disposal in 10 sound modules and a couple of hardware samplers. And the cool thing about MIDI is I can change the instrument to fit the tune. I can take a clean guitar sound and make it a Strat, Tele, 335, Les Paul, some with choice of front, mid or rear pickup, plus a number of other non-named clean guitar voices. Plus a number of processed guitar voices not available in the General MIDI set. Same goes for other instruments. I even have a nice Rock-a-Billy bass that sounds like a nylon string bass with slap articulation.
I love MIDI for all the variety it gives me.
Lately I've been mixing with a few Real Tracks, I like some of them, but I can't do the things with the RTs that I can do with MIDI (yet).
Notes ♫
Brand new 2012.5 updates from Norton Music:- 2 new style disks for Band-in-a-Box
- 2 new free (with a purchase) fancy intro/ending disks for Real Band and other DAW's
- The Ultimate Gospel Fake Disk
- The Real Rock Fake Disk (plenty of classic rock in this one)
- The Beatles Fake Disk
- And an updated Christmas Fake Disk
Hundreds of Free .sgu and .mp3 demos for the above at: http://www.nortonmusic.com
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,470
Veteran
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Quote:
THANKS guys for all the great feedback. But let's say for whatever reasons...good or bad...I elect to restrict my tracks to only the sampled RealTracks.
In that event it is my understanding that there is no midi output so whatever midi driver is selected is irrelevant and would be overridden by the VSC or Forte sofware synths I have installed....AND...therefore...do I assume correctly that playing through an external sound module would also be irrelevant? I.E. that the Real Tracks samples just go THRU the module and aren't enhanced or detracted from by doing so?
Sorry to be such a dunce on all this.
THANKS!
Jim
The audio on the Real Tracks do not go through your synth (hardware or software) at all.
I don't have inside information on the Real Tracks, but I assume they are digital audio information similar to an audio CD and your sound card goes through a DA converter (Digital to analog) to turn them into audio. So the synths are not even being used.
Again thinking out loud your sound card could have a lame DA converter. If so you are out of luck, it would probably cost more to improve the computer than to get a new one. If you play an audio CD through your computer, how does it sound?
The next thing I can think of might be the amp that sends the audio signal to your headphone jack might have limited bandwidth (telephone quality). If that's the case, a USB to Audio interface might save the day.
My ThinkPads have decent sound cards. However I can hear the difference between the headphone jack and the USB-Audio interface through my PA set. The USB-Audio has better high frequency response. I recommend one of these interfaces even if you have a good sound card - they are inexpensive, full audio bandwidth, and they don't make static if you touch the mini phone jack at the headphone output.
Notes ♫
Brand new 2012.5 updates from Norton Music:- 2 new style disks for Band-in-a-Box
- 2 new free (with a purchase) fancy intro/ending disks for Real Band and other DAW's
- The Ultimate Gospel Fake Disk
- The Real Rock Fake Disk (plenty of classic rock in this one)
- The Beatles Fake Disk
- And an updated Christmas Fake Disk
Hundreds of Free .sgu and .mp3 demos for the above at: http://www.nortonmusic.com
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 126
Apprentice
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Apprentice
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 126 |
Here's another two-cents worth.
I use combinations of soft synths and external hardware synths. Each person will have their own preferences depending on needs, likes, budgets, etc.
As others have mentioned, hardware synths have the advantage of quality of sound, zero latency (practically zero latency, since all electronics has some latency, albeit usually imperceptible to the human ear), and no overhead on the computer except for the audio interface (which varies with type, manufacturer and drivers). That being said, not all hardware synths (sound generators or keyboard synths), perform as well compared to each other. That topic is like politics, and is sure to end up in heated debates.
But, here is my partial setup and abbreviated (arrived at over the years after auditioning, buying various units, software, etc.)
SOFTWARE
BBW/Realband and other PG apps (versions 2004 to present)
Cakewalk SONAR Studio Version 5 (numerous soft synths)
Cakewalk SONAR Producer Version X1 (numerous soft synths)
Earlier versions of Cubase, now retired
Earlier versions of Abelton Live, now retired
HARDWARE
Yamaha Motif keyboard Synth (Classic edition)
Yamaha Motif ES rack Synth
Roland Synth (early edition)
Kawai Synth (early edition)
Presonus Firepod 8 channel, Spdif In/Out, MIDI In/Out firewire audio interface (newer models available)
Edirol (now owned by Roland) 6 channel, Digital Audio In/Out (optical), MIDI In/Out firewire audio interface used in my portable rack
TC Helicon Quintent Vocal Processor
TC Helicon Voice Live 2 Vocal Processor
Roland GI-20 (synth guitar midi interface)
COMPUTER SETUPS (all have firewire 400 ports and use ASIO drivers)
Dual Core AMD, Windows XP Pro, more than sufficient to run SONAR 5 and BBW
Intel I7, Windows 7 Pro, lots of memory and multiple drives, SONAR X1 Producer
MY APPLICATION
I rely on BBW to build a foundation, then add/modify/remove elements for my taste. I export the resultant song to .wav files, then burn the CD, mp3s with a typical CD/converter program, such as Nero or Windows Media Player.
Several of the soft synths I use are quite good, and provide what I need in many instances. The Yamaha Motifs however, offer a realism for some instruments that the soft synths don't (like flute, sax, for example). I can trigger either motif (keyboard or rack) with my guitar as well (via the GI-20). The Motif also has a breath transducer that can be assigned to further articulate wind instrument voices (check out Eric Clapton's keyboard player on the 24 Nights Concert DVD-that's why I bought the breath transducer). A qualifier of sorts: As much as I use the Motifs, guitar being my primary instrument, I have yet to find a synth (hardware or software) that convinces me completely on guitars. The guitar (and similar instruments) is more difficult to simulate due to its very nature). I'm sure sax and flute players would feel the same way regarding their instruments as well, comparing them to the synth results.
My keyboards/controllers are velocity sensitive and have after touch (important to add realism to several voice types).
I record midi and audio from either my guitars or keyboards in SONAR. SONAR provides me with editing and other processing options not available in BBW or Realband). Here a few examples:
1. I copy all or part of one or more midi tracks, use the midi to trigger other instruments, note-by-note at will. I may also use a midi track to transpose/transform complete tracks, selected measures, or notes to change octaves or create harmony).
2. Invoke signal processing on portions of a track or on clips (such as envelope processing.
3. Send midi or audio out to an external synth or processor (such as the Motif or Voice Live 2) for additional processing and bring it back in on another channel (track) in SONAR.
There has been several negative comments regarding ASIO in this (and other forums). But I feel (and my experience has been) that with the proper hardware, drivers, and setup, ASIO still provides the best performance. Note however, without naming companies and models here, you will find some brands are problematic, both in hardware and drivers). And chip sets used on the hardware interface, whether it's a firewire or USB DO MAKE A DIFFERENCE. More recently, some of the firewire chip sets (and some USB chip sets) used by manufacturers do not work for audio purposes. Check out various user forums regarding hardware, chipsets and drivers (e.g., Cakewalk, Presonus). I recently had to go through this SAGA on my i7 platform. I found that the TI chip set works, while other brands don't. Windows 7 also has some oddities.
Bottom line, I use both extensively. And even with today's much faster computers, software typically still has more inherent latency than hardware. Buy as much hardware as you can afford that meets your needs (generally, better synths will cost more, but some less expensive ones perform well for several voices). Software is a little different. Price is not always indicative of quality/performance (BBW is an example where great software isn't very expensive, and is definitely unique in its core functions). Over the years, I have bought expensive software only to find out it doesn't measure up. At least many companies now offer some sort of free trial for their software.
Richard
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
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Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® Special Offers Extended Until January 15, 2026!
Good news! You still have time to upgrade to the latest version of Band-in-a-Box® for Windows® and save. Our Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® special now runs through January 15, 2025!
We've packed Band-in-a-Box® 2026 with major new features, enhancements, and an incredible lineup of new content! The program now sports a sleek, modern GUI redesign across the entire interface, including updated toolbars, refreshed windows, smoother workflows, a new dark mode option, and more. The brand-new side toolbar provides quicker access to key windows, while the new Multi-View feature lets you arrange multiple windows as layered panels without overlap, creating a flexible, clutter-free workspace. We have an amazing new “AI-Notes” feature. This transcribes polyphonic audio into MIDI so you can view it in notation or play it back as MIDI. You can process an entire track (all pitched instruments and drums) or focus on individual parts like drums, bass, guitars/piano, or vocals. There's an amazing collection of new content too, including 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two RealDrums Stems sets, XPro Styles PAK 10, Xtra Styles PAK 21, and much more!
There are over 100 new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®.
When you order purchase Band-in-a-Box® 2026 before 11:59 PM PST on January 15th, you'll also receive a Free Bonus PAK packed with exciting new add-ons.
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® today! Check out the Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all the purchase options available.
Happy New Year!
Thank you for being part of the Band-in-a-Box® community.
Wishing you and yours a very happy 2026—Happy New Year from all of us at PG Music!
Season's Greetings!
Wishing everyone a happy, healthy holiday season—thanks for being part of our community!
The office will be closed for Christmas Day, but we will be back on Boxing Day (Dec 26th) at 6:00am PST.
Team PG
Band-in-a-Box 2026 Video: The Newly Designed Piano Roll Window
In this video, we explore the updated Piano Roll, complete with a modernized look and exciting new features. You’ll see new filtering options that make it easy to focus on specific note groups, smoother and more intuitive note entry and editing, and enhanced options for zooming, looping, and more.
Watch the video.
You can see all the 2026 videos on our forum!
Band-in-a-Box 2026 Video: AI Stems & Notes - split polyphonic audio into instruments and transcribe
This video demonstrates how to use the new AI-Notes feature together with the AI-Stems splitter, allowing you to select an audio file and have it separated into individual stems while transcribing each one to its own MIDI track. AI-Notes converts polyphonic audio—either full mixes or individual instruments—into MIDI that you can view in notation or play back instantly.
Watch the video.
You can see all the 2026 videos on our forum!
Bonus PAK and 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®
With your version 2026 for Windows Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons for FREE! Or upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2026 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 27 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 25 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 12 new RealStyles.
- MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
- Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
- Playable RealTracks Set 5
- RealDrums Stems Set 9: Cool Brushes
- SynthMaster Sounds Set 1 (with audio demos)
- Android Band-in-a-Box® App (included)
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyle.
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- MIDI Styles Set 93: Look Ma! More MIDI 16: SynthMaster
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
- Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
- RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
- SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®!
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