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Wow!!! These SuperTracks are good. I've just been playing with the Jazz SuperTracks using Garritan Jazz And Big Band and the Pop/Country ST using Dimension Pro. The sound is stunning. Coupling these with Realtracks is going to add a whole new dimension to my arrangements. Thank you PG Music  Noel P.S. Hope there are more of these in the next release. The bar for top-notch MIDI music has certainly been raised with this release of BIAB.
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2024
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Hi Noel. I'm realy interested in your comments. Please let me know if I understand a couple things correctly.
1. Is it basically true that RealTracks sound just as good (to the average ear)as midi tracks played from ANY sound library?
2. Since there are now SO many RealTracks...do I assume correctly that most people use a midi sound library to play arrangements originally created with midi tracks?
3. If 2 is true, wouldn't the same sound enhancement vs. midi be accomplished by selecting a new RealTracks style instead of buying a midi sound library like Garritan???
THANKS!
Jim
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Quote:
1. Is it basically true that RealTracks sound just as good (to the average ear)as midi tracks played from ANY sound library?
The sound is relative to the listener. Many factors are involved such as music style, synth choice, etc. For me the phrasing is critical regardless of RealTrack or Midi. It appears like the new SuperTracks have more phrases than the original Midi styles. Which has more 'natural' sounding phrases is yet to be determined. Midi does have many advantages such as less disk space, faster generation, editable notation and the ability to play though synths - both software and hardware.
Quote:
2. Since there are now SO many RealTracks...do I assume correctly that most people use a midi sound library to play arrangements originally created with midi tracks?
Not necessarily. I plan to experiment with the SuperTracks with new and existing songs.
Quote:
3. If 2 is true, wouldn't the same sound enhancement vs. midi be accomplished by selecting a new RealTracks style instead of buying a midi sound library like Garritan???
If you are happy with the RealTracks, no need for midi. Some, including myself, find a mixture of RealTracks and Midi to be the best solution. If using Midi, you don't have to buy Garritan if another synth is acceptable. Garritan is one of the best but many are happy with the Roland VSC or Coyote Forte. And if you have a good external synth, all the better.
Be sure to check out the SuperTracks demos found HERE. That may help answer your questions.
Last edited by Rachael; 08/03/12 10:12 AM.
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What Rachael said!
while I haven't started playing around with the MIDI RT's YET, still downloading "stuff", I assume I will have a little more and better control over the "players" than I did with RT's - but that's TBD.
And since I have a lot of MIDI gear and VSTi's my MIDI sound palette is anything but limited so time to experiment.
Larry
Win10Pro,i9,64GB,2TBSSD+20TBHDDs,1080TI,BIAB'24,Scarlett18i8,Montage7,Fusion 8HD,QS8,Integra7,XV5080,QSR,SC-8850,SPLAT,FL21&others,Komp.14,IK suite&others, just a guitar player-AXE FX III &FM9T, FishmanTP, MIDIGuitar2, GK2/3'sw/GI20
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Use of MIDI Super Track instead of a RealTrack gives many what they have been clamoring for the past few years -- a very realistic sounding part that allows them to go in there and EDIT to suit. Move notes up and down the staff, change durations, velocities, etc. -- but still start out with a part that is very much like the RealTracks in that it is derived from phrases and such played by a real player, dynamics and all. But now you can change them a bit to suit, if you desire!
These Supertracks performances are so good that I can't tell many of them from RealTracks by just listening to them.
--Mac
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Okay, I'm a little slow today. I just saw the notice for the 2012.5 and MIDI SuperTracks, but from the limited description, I'm not sure I understand how the Supertracks would be used.
I am thinking that you access a SuperTrack just like a style, so I would substitute a SuperTrack in place of a current style? The SuperTracks rhythms would follow the chords of the song just like a "style" but you would have more flexibility and control of the SuperTrack and it sounds more "natural" because it's being played by a musician.
So it would be like a RealTrack, but with the control features of MIDI?
The demos sound interesting, so if I could get a little better explanation, it may make sense to order the update.
Cz...
BIAB,Bandlab Cakewalk,Kontakt, Cantabile, SampleTank4,IK BX-3, VB3, iZotope Suite, IK TRacks, Melodyne Studio
Kurzweil PC4SE, AXIOM-61key & IKiRigPro-32key boards, Roland SD-50 MIDI, Behringer 404HD, Maschine MK3,TC Helicon Voiceworks
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Same questions here. A part controlled by a style has all those masks conditionally determining riffs and patterns based on the changes, etc. How does the Super Midi Track do that if it's not linked to the style?
-Ron
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Lets take this down to basics. "determining riffs and patterns based on the changes...".
Here the question for you. Without the Supertracks ie prior to this morning, what is the source of those riffs and patterns in a midi (not RT) style?
Answer that and come back.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Hopefully, this will help answer some of the questions that have been asked. Using MIDI Supertracks is very similar to using Realtracks. For example, when I right-click on the "Piano" track, I get the below choices in the menu which now include adding a MIDI Supertrack ...  Then, when I click on the Supertrack option, I get to the below selection screen ...  Quote:
A part controlled by a style has all those masks conditionally determining riffs and patterns based on the changes, etc. How does the Super Midi Track do that if it's not linked to the style?
The riffs, etc., in these Supertracks are just like the riffs in Realtracks. They are part of the musican's recording.
Supertracks are EXACTLY the same as Realtracks in that they are played by a professional musician who's an expert in his field. The DIFFERENCE between these new tracks and Realtracks is that the recording is a MIDI recording and not an AUDIO recording. This gives a whole heap more versatility to the track.
Because it's a MIDI recording, the quality of the sound is completely determined by the quality of the software or hardware that's used to interpret the MIDI information. Also, because it's MIDI information, as Mac has already said, the information can be fully edited and notes modified, deleted, added, etc.
Hope this helps a bit more,
Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2024
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Noel is a real gem around here...
Thanks for all you do, Noel!
--Mac
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Yes, thanks Noel for the demo. After posting above, I realized it must work as you show.
Looks like this is the wave (not wav) of the future. Very exciting. All the more incentive, I hope, for PG to clean up some little things, like making higher bank patch selection work properly from all the interface points where patch changes can be set.
-Ron
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The point I was getting at Ron, is before this morning, a midi style's parts were mostly written into a midi editor note for note probably using the editable notation. As we know, doing it that way can sound a bit stiff but some of them are still pretty decent. I know that a lot of the midi drums were recorded live on a midi drum kit but not the instrument parts. Just play one of the standard midi styles and then replace the parts with Supertracks. Huge difference assuming you're using a good synth.. Want to be shocked? Listen to the piano Supertrack demos, then find the same track on your machine and play it using the Coyote Wavetable. It sounds like one of those old $29.95 Casio battery powered toy keyboards from 20 years ago. I got one of those for my daughter.
Supertracks gives us all just many more options to get a song to where we want it. Some instruments are still not suited for midi like a pedal steel for example. That one is going to sound best as a Real Track even if we can't edit it much.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Quote:
Looks like this is the wave (not wav) of the future
I went from vinyl to CD to Flac saying I'll never go back. However, I'm glad to see PG revisiting and refining Midi. Looking forward to seeing where they go with this as I always suspected they could do a better job. This was apparent to me when RealTracks were introduced and I was able to play the RT part through a Midi synth. It sounded almost identical to the RT audio and so much better than the style-specific midi part.
I'd love to hear more versions of the SuperTracks demos played through different synths. Right now it is only available using the Garritan software. Coyote Forte, Roland VSC, and Ketron comparisons would be great.
R
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Noel... Also thanks for the visual explanation, but I'm still being dense on using these SuperTracks.
If I take an existing song which may have a Real Style used for the accompaniment, I would leave that style in place and use SuperTracks to modify one or more of the tracks with a "SuperTrack" as Noel shows in his earlier post?
I think my confusion comes when I use a style that has all Realtracks. Using a SuperTrack would then overlay the Realtrack with the advantage of offering MIDI control...
and a better sound than the original Realtrack, if I understand correctly from the pianos discussion.
Is that correct?
Perhaps my best bet is to invest the $99 and try it for myself!!
Cz...
BIAB,Bandlab Cakewalk,Kontakt, Cantabile, SampleTank4,IK BX-3, VB3, iZotope Suite, IK TRacks, Melodyne Studio
Kurzweil PC4SE, AXIOM-61key & IKiRigPro-32key boards, Roland SD-50 MIDI, Behringer 404HD, Maschine MK3,TC Helicon Voiceworks
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Hi cfcboc, Quote:
I think my confusion comes when I use a style that has all Realtracks. Using a SuperTrack would then overlay the Realtrack with the advantage of offering MIDI control...
Not being a beta tester, I'm still pretty much a novice at using the Supertracks but how they're working on my system is that they are another option for an instrument to be added to a track (not an overlay - although it would most likely be possible to achieve this effect in Realband).
For example, if I load in the Realstyle _CBALAD2.STY I get RT #363 (Pedal Steel) on the Strings track. Let's say, I'd like to have a synth string sound instead of the pedal steel. It's easy now because I can simply select a pad MIDI Supertrack and it will replace the pedal steel. (It's exactly the same as, say, replacing the pedal steel RT with a harmonica RT only now there are also MIDI options (i.e. Supertracks) that have been prepared from the playing of a professional.)
Hope this helps a bit more
Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2024
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Quote:
Thanks for all you do, Noel!
Thanks Mac. When I look at your nearly 34,000 posts, though, I realize that my contribution to these forums is just a drop in the ocean compared to your effort!!
All the best,
Noel
P.S. I don't that anyone who knows me has ever thought of me as a "gem". That's the beauty of the internet, I can fool people. In real life, I suspect I'm more likely to be described as a stone or pebble 
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2024
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I have been listening to the samples on the PG Home page and I am blown away by the quality of these Midi Super Tracks. I wonder if anyone can tell me what synth was used to play/make these samples?
Thanks,
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Hi Danny, I've just had a look at the webpage and PG Music say that they're used Garritan Jazz And Big Band 3 for these audio demos. http://www.pgmusic.com/garritanjazzandbigband.win.packages.htmI have both Garritan JABB 3 and Dimension Pro and I'm blown away at how good these Supertracks sounds through a decent soft synth. Regards, Noel
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Thanks, looks like I will be purchasing some new sound fonts.
Later,
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Quote:
...........Just play one of the standard midi styles and then replace the parts with Supertracks. Huge difference assuming you're using a good synth.. Want to be shocked? Listen to the piano Supertrack demos, then find the same track on your machine and play it using the Coyote Wavetable. It sounds like one of those old $29.95 Casio battery powered toy keyboards from 20 years ago. I got one of those for my daughter..........Bob
I believe it Bob. I've got 4 banks of external Kurzweil voices, which, despite this VST jungle, I still enjoy. Hence my interest in seeing proper higher bank functionality wherever patch switch points appear in BB. -Ron
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
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