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Reproducible – open *any* song that has multiple choruses and a tag ending. Make sure you are on the notation screen, then reduce the number of choruses to one and the melody disappears. Re-open (without saving or you lose the melody) then *uncheck* tag, then reduce the number of choruses to one and the melody remains intact. Please fix this annoying bug.
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I have worked around this with a simple copy and paste routine. I don't get the angst. The solution to NOT having this happen has 3 or 4 work arounds.
I'm positive that pg, like most other companies that have software, keep a list of problems that are annoyances, and that get almost NO reports, or just a few.
Programming resources dedicated to a large scale project such as this must be allocated where they have the most impact.
My workflow, when making a change such as you propose, has always included the saving of the piece under a backup name, and then rolling back the change when something goes awry.
This seems to be your personal annoyance, however I'd send an actual letter to Peter Gannon and ask his reply to your particular problem.
As implied, this has happened to me, and I have a workaround, and given that I'm onto the issue, there is no issue. Perhaps the only issue is I have not reported this myself, for the reason as stated above.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Hi Bob,
Just reproduced this bug here easily.
I didn't know or didn't recall this one or would certainly have pointed it out during the beta.
(Would sure be nice to have a separate Forum board for listing JUST bug reports that are reproducible by other users, that way the development team AND the beta testers might be able to more comprehensively attack the situation. Hint-Hint. )
But there is still a good chance to get this one fixed right now -- I suggest that you send an email to pgmusic support referencing this thread and the problem.
There is a good chance that an Update release for 2012.5 might include a fix!
--Mac
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That goes back at least 4 or 5 versions. Maybe years.
I'm sure I documented it at one time but perhaps at a low priority on my scale.
Just FYI.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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I have always known the melody could disappear, so I make sure I like the song form including number of choruses before copying the melody to the final chorus. Thus I never fooled with it to see if it could reappear.
Frequent saves of versions along the way can help, too.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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I agree. I think if it was reported enough it would have been changed a long time ago, if that was possible. I remember asking why something couldn't be fixed before and was told, 'it's too difficult'.
To wit:
I have always known that changing something on line 25,355 would come back and bite me hard 3 years later, and I wondered if I really did the right thing all those years ago.
When I wrote code I had handwritten books that were in essence log books to go with the backups unix gave me in that environment, despite my feeling that that was good enough, I could always find some entry dated 3 years earlier where I did change some dumb thing, and that was the root cause.
So, I would state, pragmatically, that if this is an easy fix, it will show up in a later build. Otherwise, it won't. Golly that's a distillation of many thoughts and threads. Gosub...
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Why do you guys write your songs that way to start with? Just make your chord sheet from top down and don't ask the software to repeat anything. I have never once used that "repeat the chorus" thing. Is it that much extra work to just run your chords top down from measure 1 to the end?
This comes down to a "goto x number of times then goto y...." kind of programming thing. Eliminate the goto instruction and your problem is solved.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Journeyman
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Quote:
Why do you guys write your songs that way to start with? Just make your chord sheet from top down and don't ask the software to repeat anything. I have never once used that "repeat the chorus" thing. Is it that much extra work to just run your chords top down from measure 1 to the end?
This comes down to a "goto x number of times then goto y...." kind of programming thing. Eliminate the goto instruction and your problem is solved.
HA!!! Kickin' it old school. Gotta love it.
But let me ask a dumb question. I'm mostly a blues dog so I don't need long charts.
But if I did need...say a 100 measure song form, and just punched all the changes in, would the lead sheet be 100 measures...2 1/2 pages assuming 10 bars per line? Or does the software figure out that you are repeating...say a 12 bar blues form 8X with a tag ending and print it out that way???
In other words...would the lead sheet have just 12 measures of changes...an 8X repeat sign and a tag ending....or not?
Or what if...after the first 7X through the form...the song does a "double turn around"...or a "Robben Ford bridge" that goes off into another county.. before going back to the head....where a DS al CODA might be used?
I seem to recall reading the documentation that the software does figure that sort of thing out...but I could be wrong...again! (-:
Thanks!
Jim
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Well, if your into jazz, using the Chorus repeats is often essential to get the automatic change of style for the middle choruses, which typically swing a bit harder and add walkind bass.
And for live gig performance with BiaB and JAZZ, I take advantage of the slightly different arrangements each time you hit Play, makes it more like a real live jazz gig.
Quite often on these forums, I notice people only commenting or thinking about this extrenmely versatile program in only the fashion that they use it. There's lots of different kinds of musicians using this program for lots of different things.
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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John, I have workarounds also, but seems like bugs should be fixed whether they affect a few folks or a few dozen or more. Many may have only cursed their melody disappearing and let it go at that. Support is aware of this from the last time I posted on this regular forum, so I guess I was expecting it would have been on the list to fix for this next version.
Yes, it is a minor issue but irritating. If it is a difficult fix, Peter could just say so and I would let it go but I am guessing it is a pretty simple fix.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Apprentice
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Apprentice
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I get a dialog box when changing the number of choruses (BIAB 2011).
The message is "Ok to adjust melody track to fit new number of choruses?"
If I select "Yes", the melody disappears. If I select "No" or "Cancel", the melody remains. This is in changing to 1 chorus from several, with a tag present.
Is no one else getting this dialog box? Or is this a case where one needs to answer "Yes"?
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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The reason I ask, if it does involve adjusting the melody, it would seem to be easy to fix. The program could simply not allow any adjustment under those conitions. That's what happens anyway if you don't select "Yes". Number of choruses is still reduced to 1, and the melody remains.
At the very least, a warning message could posted in the dialog box.
(this is assuming that the problem can't be fixed properly for some reason. If it could be, then obviously that is what should be done)
The work arounds are simple enough, but if you are unaware of the problem,
there is no work around the first time it happens.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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PG Music Staff
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PG Music Staff
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BIAB doesn't fully support a single chorus with a tag ending because I never thought that people would make songs like that. What are you expecting to see in a song with a single chorus but also a tag ending? (should it take the tag, and never play part of the song?)
A tag is normally something that happens on the last chorus of a multiple chorus song.
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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I don't believe there is anything wrong with the way tags are handled. I agree that a tag makes no sense on a one chorus song.
If you reduce a multiple repeat chorus to a single chorus after removing the tag, everything happens as expected.
If you reduce a multiple repeat chorus to a single chorus but leave the tag, BIAB will remove the tag for you. This also as you might expect. No problems there.
The problem is with the melody. If you leave the tag and allow BIAB to remove it, BIAB will also remove the melody. Not just what was in the multiple choruses, but the entire melody. One would expect one chorus of melody to remain, but the entire melody track is erased.
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PG Music Staff
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Thanks megafiddle,
Yes that makes sense. I'll change it so that it preserves the melody and removes the tag setting, if you set it to 1 chorus,.
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Well, if your into jazz, using the Chorus repeats is often essential to get the automatic change of style for the middle choruses, which typically swing a bit harder and add walkind bass.
Not really Mac because the change of substyle is also based on the part markers plus you still have the F5 bar settings. If you have one long song, every time you want that change put in the green marker. It works the same way and this has nothing to with a slightly different arrangement on a regen. You still get that with one long song too.
I think the problem here is how that one chorus is being created. When you want one long song, you don't select the chorus number 1 in the chorus box, you go to File>unfold. I'm not at my home computer right now but I think if you do the "unfold" routine, everything is fine including the tag and the melody. Unfolding keeps the tag and that's what Eddie was talking about as well. Therefore no bug because you're using the wrong routine for what you're trying to do. However this is an example of it not being obvious. Maybe Peter could put in a warning box in a case like this, saying "changing number of chorus' to 1 when tag is present will erase the melody, see file>unfold as an option".
Of course, when I get home to test this and I'm wrong please ignore this post and I'll go back to sleep.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Quote:
Thanks megafiddle,
Yes that makes sense. I'll change it so that it preserves the melody and removes the tag setting, if you set it to 1 chorus,.
Thanks Peter
Hope I didn't sound like I was complaining about BIAB. I get interested in any kind of software problem. Also I wasn't sure if you were aware of the melody problem.
BIAB is an excellent piece of software. I can appreciate what must go into it.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
Well, if your into jazz, using the Chorus repeats is often essential to get the automatic change of style for the middle choruses, which typically swing a bit harder and add walkind bass.
Not really Mac because the change of substyle is also based on the part markers plus you still have the F5 bar settings. If you have one long song, every time you want that change put in the green marker. It works the same way and this has nothing to with a slightly different arrangement on a regen. You still get that with one long song too.
Agreed on the fundamental action there, Bob.
But I have *thousands* of jazz songs entered over the years and they are already entered as Choruses with repeats. I've got my own reasons for doing it that way, which include being able to quickly print leadsheets when necessary, in order to pass out songlists to others (I do that regularly, when putting together an all live act, or teaching, etc.) and this just makes the whole thing a lot simpler for me.
Also, song layout does not take as long as using the "One Long Song" approach.
I do have some songfiles that I laid out using the One Long Song approach though, which are created for my live performances with BiaB. Some are my own workarounds to situations such as long intros, Mercy, Mercy, Mercy as Zawinul and Cannonball originally did it comes to mind, where I want to play Zawinul's long Rhodes intro, so created it with one superlong Intro that does not sound any notes, using 'ghost' notes on the Melody line, all quarter notes at third space C and zero velocity to create a visual metronome guide. Using the Notation View and the Note Highlighting, I can create the illusion that I'm playing by myself and have BB come in with the rest of the band at the right time. But after that long Intro, the actual song is laid out as one chorus and uses the repeats for soloing time.
I guess my real point is that there are *many* ways to use BiaB and while everyone finds their own preferred methodologies, often is the case that Tunnel Vision or Myopathy, if you will, tends to lead them to campaign for the program to be made to work *only* in the way or reason that they personally use the program. I think that there should be room enough for all, sometimes a wish can be implemented without obviating or excluding other methods, eh?
--Mac
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That's a cool approach about the intro to Mercy. I have it programed as well but I just reach up and double tap the touchpad on my laptop. That of course is the same as double clicking the mouse and that will start a song immediately from wherever the cursor is sitting on the chord grid. My approach works fine but your solution is certainly more elegant and I wouldn't expect anything less from you being an engineer and all. Pretty slick.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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