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The "To release a CD yourself or not." got me thinking about everyone's expectations about "making it" in the crazy entertainment world, of which music is a part of... For all the decades I made my living from music, my average pay after taxes, gas, food, lodging when necessary...all the things that are needed to live on the road, I made slightly above the minimum wage rate of that time period. Some folks thought it was not worth that little bit, but I had no outstanding bills, always had a roof over my head, food on the table, and a reliable vehicle. Being single during most of that time made it easy, but even today my lifestyle is one of simplicity, I just don't need or want all the trappings the "American Dream" says we need... So, for me, I had made it. I was doing what I love and living a decent life.. So, what is YOUR definition of "making it"? 
i5 3.20GHz, 32gb RAM, 1tb SSD OS, 12tb HDD, 4gb gForce vid card, 32" monitor, Audient id44, Win10 x64, BiaB/RB 2023, Reaper 6,IK Multimedia Total Studio 3.5 MAX, Waves 10
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Enjoying what you do has great value.
Kudos!
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Making it in music - Regular royalty checks with lots of zeros. LOL! Making it in life - what rharv said. 
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I couldn't NOW, but I have in the past. That band worked ourselves to death to do it, but we did fine. That was at a point in life when I liked a week in Saginaw here, 4 days in Indy there, every now and then a week in Florida when the weather up north sucked. The suitcase didn't bother me then. 20 years later I try to leave my house as little as possible....
And to be honest, when music was my job, I burned out on it. Now that I can play for my own enjoyment, I find it more enjoyable. That was also after a break of 16 years, so.....
But on topic, no, I couldn't. Not at the skill level I am at these days.
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Journeyman
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Could You Live From Making Music? Me? Not a chance. Quote:
Everybody wants to pass as cats.
We all want to be big big stars, but we got different reasons for that"
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I'm not sure one is supposed to make a 'living' making music. Has it ever really been this way except for the very top echelon? How many paid court musicians existed in the baroque and classical eras? How many more troubadours were there at the time? I would say jcspro's definition works. I would say that's how it works for most persons that make a living in any of the arts; musicians, playwrights, authors, artists of any type.
It's hard work. But if you enjoy it, that's part of the whole choppin' wood and carrying water thing, isn't it?
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I might not be able to live from "making music", but you can bet your backsides I can live "to" make music!
Later,
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Quote:
And to be honest, when music was my job, I burned out on it.
Me too Eddie. When I was in my 20s I was doing a day job and then playing five nights a week with the band, plus some session work during the day on weekends. It helped me buy my first house, but the music just became a job like any other.
Over the years I've been lucky to earn a lot of my income from music, but I always recommend people to have a "Plan B".
ROG.
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Plan B? Isn't that that band from Manchester? *ducks*
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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I think it is the way it has always been in "arts" -- 1% make all the money and 99% scrounge for what they can. Just too much supply in the old supply and demand equation. Quote:
We all want to be big stars,
but we don't know why
and we don't know how
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Make a living from music...never gonna happen for me. There's nothing that anyone would pay to hear when its just me, alone, at night sitting at a dimly lit keyboard. But, must admit, that music is what I'm living for....
Win11, Intel i7 7700K 4.2Ghz, 32Gb RAM, 2x1Tb HD, 500Gb NVMe, BIAB/RB 2025, MOTU 828MK3 audio, MOTU Midi Express, Yamaha Montage 7, DX7II, TX802, Motif XS Rack, Roland Fantom XR Rack, Oberheim Matrix 1000, VoiceLive3 Extreme, Kontakt 6, SampleTank 4.3
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Like Eddie and Rog I got burned out. In the mid 60’s to the early 70’s I was making more money playing music than I was working. When I finally got an offer to tour I had a wife, kid, mortgage and a good job so I turned it down.
After 40 years of wedding bands I called it quits. But thanks to an Atari computer with those funny looking 5 pin plugs in the back, a Korg DS-8, Dr. T’s sequencer and a little program called BiaB I kept music as a hobby. Now with DAWs and especially with BiaB I am playing what I want when I want. All I have to do is to please myself.
So no, today I could not make a living playing music. But music has and still does supplement my income very nicely.
For me plan B worked out the best!
The fitness trainer asked me, "What kind of a squat are you accustomed to doing?" I said, "Diddly."
64 bit Win 11 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Quote:
Make a living from music...never gonna happen for me. There's nothing that anyone would pay to hear when its just me, alone, at night sitting at a dimly lit keyboard. But, must admit, that music is what I'm living for....
Boy, that lesson waa driven home real hard to me when I was still but a teenager and my father took me to a show in Pittsburgh that featured Ray Charles all by himself with just a Grand Piano and an old Wurlitzer Electric Piano, the original with the tube amp in it.
The audience was enraptured the entire time. Not only was it a rather intimate performance, it was one of the strongest performances I have ever seen in my life.
There is another thread here recently about Tommy Emmanuel. Same thing IMO.
The one common denominator I've noticed about these kind of performers, who can entertain audiences all night long all by themselves and never lose that keen audience interest, is that they always, always, KEEP PERFECT TIME while they are performing. Watch their feet, as that is their internal clock. Then govern your practice time accordingly.
Over the years I've learned that you don't have to attempt to play *everything* when accompanying your own singing or otherwise playing your instrument by yourself like that, but you absolutely MUST be able to keep good time.
One of my old private teachers used to say, "You can play a wrong note at the right time and most won't notice, but you cannot play a right note at the wrong time!"
Of course, there is more to it than that, intonation, etc. are also extremely important things, but that "good timing" directive is likely the single most important aspect of performance that I often find to be missing when viewing live acts today. And far too many will prefer to argue about that and make what I think are excuses rather than take the advice seriously and then do what it takes to correct same.
Tommy Emmanuel was a DRUMMER at one point in his life -- and he keeps impeccable time when he plays those pieces that knock everybody out.
Just something to think about,
--Mac
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Quote:
But thanks to an Atari computer with those funny looking 5 pin plugs in the back, a Korg DS-8, Dr. T’s sequencer and a little program called BiaB I kept music as a hobby.
Mario. And didn't we have some fun with those Atari and Amiga computers and good old Dr.T.
Looking back it was so basic, but at the time it was all new and exciting and the possibilities seemed endless. Now that we've got so much technology, I find it hard to raise the same level of enthusiasm for each new advance as I did back then.
Oh no! it's the "Glory Days" again. (But I do love that song.)
ROG.
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I have been making a living doing music and nothing but music for most of my life, and I'm now at retirement age, but have no plans to retire. http://www.s-cats.com is my current duo. We do yacht clubs, country clubs, condominiums, private parties and other adult venues that want "baby-boomer" music. I have nothing against top40 but the young don't want to see a greying, balding, adult play their music. I've never been burned out by it. I love playing music, I love the audience, I love my job -- being a musician is not what I do, it's what I am. I will continue to play music for as long as I am able, and hopefully that will be a long as I can fog a mirror. I've played everything from bars where they passed the hat to huge concerts where I was in the warm-up band for the headliner and absolutely everything in between. I was in a road band that almost "made it big" until the negotiations between Motown and our lawyers broke down. Right now I'm "making it small" in my duo with my wife. When I met her we were playing in two different bands, and when mine broke up, we decided to join forces. There is an old saying that if you make a living doing something that you would do for free, you will never work a day in your life. Other than a couple of "day jobs" I've had while testing what the "real world" was like, I've never worked a day in my life. Sure, others make a lot more money. But I pay the mortgage on a modest home in a good neighborhood, buy new cars (but drive them until they are dead), and have enough left over to take a vacation almost every year. I do without a lot of the luxury toys that others have, but I really don't mind that at all. I also moonlight selling my style "disks" and fake "disks" for BiaB. It's not enough to make a living at, and perhaps if it were my full-time job instead of a part-time second job, I could. But life without live performance would not be as fulfilling for me. So the BiaB disks are mostly made during the summer slow gigging season here in Florida. But the fact that I play music for my living, and I play sax, vocals, flute, wind synth, guitar, bass, keyboard synth, drums, and computer is a contributing factor as to why my aftermarket styles are so well received. So the Band-in-a-Box aftermarket products will remain a sideline, not my main occupation. But this also helps me make my own backing tracks for my duo. This is a downsized world, and I'm afraid the opportunities for making a living in 5 to 7 piece band are extremely diminished, and don't appear to be improving. So making my own backing tracks allows me the flexibility of doing the arrangements, tempos, keys, and everything else the way I like them, not how someone else thinks they should be, and not "like the recording" as playing live is not like playing on the record. Two closely related but different skills. And I blame TV for the decline of live music and the downsized musicians' world. At one time a person had to go out to hear and see quality music. The audio bandwidth on the Video signal was narrow and low-fidelity, there were only 3 or 4 TV channels, and the picture was bad. It was also free. Now we have 7.1 surround sound, huge hi-def screens and a cable subscription that can easily run a couple of hundred dollars per month (there goes the entertainment budget). I was lucky to have grown up when every town had a few bands playing live, when every motel/hotel from a Holiday Inn on up had a live band, and when people came out of their housed to be entertained. I'm not so sure that it is as easy to make a living now as it was then. I see HDTV, higher alcohol prices/taxes, increased DUI penalties, and numerous other factors competing with live music making the market smaller. I suppose musicians can still make a living doing what we love, but I think a smaller percentage of the population will be able to do so.
Bob "Notes" Norton  Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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Quote:
Quote:
But thanks to an Atari computer with those funny looking 5 pin plugs in the back, a Korg DS-8, Dr. T’s sequencer and a little program called BiaB I kept music as a hobby.
Mario. And didn't we have some fun with those Atari and Amiga computers and good old Dr.T.
Looking back it was so basic, but at the time it was all new and exciting and the possibilities seemed endless. Now that we've got so much technology, I find it hard to raise the same level of enthusiasm for each new advance as I did back then.
Oh no! it's the "Glory Days" again. (But I do love that song.)
ROG.
Mario and ROG,
Yes I had a lot of fun with my Atari computer. And MIDI music still blows me away. I haven't lost one bit of enthusiasm for it.
But for many, I think the increased sophistication of the hardware/software tools we have now have reduced our involvement and therefore enthusiasm with the music.
A big example is the trend to go to audio loops. MIDI allows you to make music, audio allows you to re-arrange other people's music. So your playing it is out of the picture.
With MIDI you can play a sax, trumpet, piano or whatever, even if you didn't know how to play that instrument, and every note you played was your own. As you grew with your MIDI skills, learned how each instrument you were emulating expressed itself and then using the 127 MIDI Continuous Controllers to coax the same nuances out of your MIDI performance, you could get something that approached 100% of the instrument you were emulating (depending on your skills).
But of course, that required time and practice (like any musical instrument). Audio is instant gratification, and that is a very seductive thing. But the price is less involvement with the music, and therefore less enthusiasm and less personal satisfaction with the end product.
Arranging and re-arranging the music performed by other people is an art in itself, but it isn't the same as playing the music yourself.
Notes ♫
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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Quote:
Right now I'm "making it small" in my duo with my wife. When I met her we were playing in two different bands, and when mine broke up, we decided to join forces.
Notes you have no idea how envious of you I am. Back in the day I wanted that in the worst way but how do you go looking for a great girl singer and somehow think you may actually marry her? Good luck with that one. To me something like that boils down to the old being in the right place at the right time and you managed to make it work out. Think of it, the timing had to be perfect, both of you had to be available with no ongoing commitments and both of you had to be talented and on the same page both personally and professionally. How does somebody go out looking for that and be successful? Where would someone start? Working with your wife is the key. Double the money means you both have a chance at a good career and the fact that you two have managed to work it out all these years is a testament to both of you. I'm sure there have been problems but you're both still together and that is just great.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Two things come into play here. First of all, define "living". You can "live" in your van on nothing, no utilities in your name, pay as you go cell phone, online access at the library only, sponging off a girlfriend or living with your parents forever, looking for people who will invite you to dinner once a week so you can have something other than cold food you make in your van.... or you can "live" in a home you own, drive a nice car, keep your gas and electric turned on.... just be responsible in general.
Second, does your area have enough places to play to keep you busy 22 dates per month?
Of course you CAN do it if you hustle and work hard. Sadly I know too many who play for $75 3 times a month and the rest of the month they drink or snort it all away. I also know many who are quite successful, though in a few cases I wonder how they'd do it without the spouse in the picture. I know of one single mom who COULD do it but she chooses to keep her daytime career in tandem with her music, but she works a lot and could make it happen if she only played music. She'd join one more band to do it, but she'd be fine.
(Edit to add: I know all these things to be true because I have done most of them....!!)
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For the record I haven't worked an 8 hour day since the early 70's.
Even then it wasn't a full 8 hours, hence my untimely dismissal.
Then again I don't really regret missing out on a career in the custodial arts.
18 years with the band, and the past 24 as a solo.
Also just got another check from CD baby.
Still waiting for my male escort gig to show a profit....
WSS
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On a more serious note I guess it all depends on what you call a living.
Later,
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- SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
- 128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
- Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
- Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
- RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®!
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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