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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2
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OP
Newbie
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2 |
Hey There,
I'm a happy new user of BIAB. I have been using the prog as a home practice tool so far (2 months), and now am looking to use it on some duo gigs.
We play jazz stds mostly and I am generally familiar with song form. I also found a fairly full collection of RealBook BIAB files on the web, so that was a cool find.
Whats driving me nuts is how to rearrange an existing chart to add a 16 bar (or longer) 2 chord solo vamp between the 1st time through the chorus and the last time through and out.
So, the form I am wanting is:
Intro 8 4 bars
Chorus 32 bars (16 bars with a 2x repeat)
solo vamp 16 bars
Chorus 32 bars (16 bars with a 2x repeat)
Ending
I've got all the parts but the solo section in the "middle" of the form. I know it's right there in front of me somewhere, but I have not been able to see it int eh tutorials or help files anywhere.
Thanks
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 99
Enthusiast
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Enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 99 |
The way that BIAB treats choruses and repeats probably isn't going to work for your custom format. So do it long form. i.e. put in all of the chords for the whole song in a linear fashion. You can select bars and copy and paste them, so it won't be too hard. Also make use of the insert bars and delete bars in the Edit menu. Make sure you're set to 1x chorus with BIAB, and the end bar is set to your end bar. I don't relate to how BIAB uses the word chorus and the repeat is only any good if you have one repeating chunklet in the middle of your song. i.e. intro - {repeatingsection} - end. It's just not that flexible. I hope this makes sense, good luck, Mel 
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
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Easiest way is to copy it out as "one long song" and ignore chorus repeats within the program. It will sound right.
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 235
Apprentice
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Apprentice
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 235 |
I am not sure if I understand what you are saying, but if it is what I think, you can turn off the fake mode first. That way the whole song will kind of expand (so without repeats). Then you go to the bar where you want to insert your own part and insert the 16 bars by going to "edit" in the menu and click insert bars. Does this help?  Ah not quite right, you also need to make the repeats then after that by rightclicking and change stuff in the repeat codas settings.  So it is possible, but in that way I think Mel's way still is easier...  And for the inserting part well that now speaks for itself... Sorry to mix things up here... 
Last edited by abaudio; 03/23/09 07:17 PM.
I'll be back...
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 507
Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 507 |
Hi P Schimm,
Since you're adapting existing files, the above advice about unfolding may be the most useful. But just so you don't get the wrong idea, starting from scratch, it's quite simple to lay out your structure. Set the song length to 48 bars, one chorus. Use the repeats function to insert a repeat for the first and last 16 bars - separate operation for each one, and keep the "generate" switch enabled each time. Add in the intro and ending: voila done in a few seconds. As a bonus, with fake mode off, you can set different chords for the second time through each repeat.
The trick (for me, anyway) to understanding "generate" is to realize that the song is always layed out linearly in the piano roll (sequencer), so creating a repeat is technically the insertion of bars. Generate accomplishes that. If you omit the "generate," the software will still create the repeat, but it will use the second 16 bars for the second time. The only actual looping done - confirmed by watching the piano roll - is for the entire "chorus."
HTH, Ron
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2
Newbie
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OP
Newbie
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2 |
thanks to all for the replies, very helpful.
I tried the system on a live duo gig on Tue night with reasonable, but not perfect, results.
Some updated and now more informed comments.
I get the "linear" arrangement idea, and alternately, the use of into's, repeats and even endings. The linear way was the only way I could get a solo section into the middle of a tune. So I did:
intro - chorus x2 - 32 bar solo section with different chords than the chorus - chorus x2 - ending
I will have to try and understand generate .. not sure I get that just yet.
I did end up just doing my own arrangements and not copying or editing existing ones. That ended up being a much easier and faster way to go.
Also, playing with the "machine" was interesting because you have to play to it, rather than having a band play together. It seems to be a fine matter of carefully laying out the song form and then also being able to hear it well enough through whatever PA you have running (I clearly need some work on volume/balance).
I bumped into the Conductor tool, and I feel I should figure that tool out, because it seems as if it could be used to control the song flow in a live situation a bit better than the laotop keyboard I used on Tue night.
Can anyone talk to me about how you control BIAB in live playing situations. I am a bass player, so I need both hands on the axe while playing .. at least some people think so ;=)
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,616
Expert
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Expert
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,616 |
Quote:
Can anyone talk to me about how you control BIAB in live playing situations. I am a bass player, so I need both hands on the axe while playing .. at least some people think so ;=)
Check out a footswitch to control a few keystrokes and Jukebox to go through a playlist of your set. A delay can be set at the end of each song and/or you can use the switch to stop and start at your choosing. Seems like something with Conductor may help. Someone else may remember.
Rachael
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 29
Enthusiast
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Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2009
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I am also new to BIAB. I've played around with the demo and just purchased the full product. I've created a 3-chorus song with an intro. I noticed the first time through the chorus it is rather "plain". The second time through there is some additonal "fill in" and the third/last time goes back to "plain". Is there a way to have a 3 play with the "fill in"?
Thanks
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,616
Expert
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Expert
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,616 |
What you are hearing is the difference in 'Part Markers'. A Blue marker is subtle and Green is busier. By default, a 3 chorus song plays the middle chorus using the Green markers. The outer choruses use whatever markers you have in your 1st chorus. To change a marker, click on the measure number and it should change from Blue to Green.
For total control over all of your choruses, you can 'Unfold' the song into one big chorus and place the markers exactly where you want them.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,697
Veteran
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The Conductor can be very useful but you have to have a free hand just for a second or two to hit a number key on the laptop. If you can manage that, you don't have to worry about setting repeats ahead of time because the Conductor allows you to set song sections and tie each section to a number so for example the A section could be 1, the B is 2, the solo vamp 3 etc. You can also set how the Conductor handles the jump. It can jump immediately even if it's in the middle of a bar (very awkward), the next bar on the 1, the next part marker (the way I do it) and maybe a couple more. It's very flexible. That means if you're playing the verse and you want to repeat it, you hit whatever number is set for the verse ahead of the jump point and it will repeat. It will do that forever as long as you hit the number before the jump point. If 7 is a tag ending you can jump to that anytime you want as well. Using the Conductor allows you to play whatever arrangement of the parts you want live. Obviously, try this at home before you try it on a gig. There's a lot of ways to use it and you have to find what works for you.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 29
Enthusiast
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Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 29 |
Thanks, I'll give the Part Markers a try. Are the changes to the Part Markers reflected in the Lead/Fake Sheets when they are printed out? I play the guitar and can "get by" with just lyrics and chords typed out over the lyrics. I've got a piano player who needs to SEE music and can't just "wing it" with some chord progressions as fill-in for backup.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,333
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Sep 2003
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Pick a style with a piano in it and then instead of the M button hit the P button for piano.
This will show you how the piano comping goes for the song.
Note that those wee buttons include a D for Drums B for Bass, etc.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,616
Expert
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Expert
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,616 |
Yes. If you use measure numbers they will say stuff like 5a or 21b for A/B markers. Enable this is the Lead Sheet options Show Bar #s at every part marker. Also each part marker change will be notated by a double bar (||) at the measure of change.
Try it
R
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 29
Enthusiast
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Enthusiast
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Thanks. I certainly have my work cut out for me. I just finished downloading BIAB/RB. Now all I have to do is install it, find a style that is "close" to what I want, input the chords (the easiest part, since I already have them on my "cheat sheets"), generate the song and print. ALL BEFORE EASTER. This is for our Easter celebration at church.  Oh, I forgot about learning how to actually use BIAB, since I've only played with the demo version for about two days prior to purchasing.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 2,275
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geetarman:
Regarding this
"I noticed the first time through the chorus it is rather "plain". The second time through there is some additonal "fill in" and the third/last time goes back to "plain". Is there a way to have a 3 play with the "fill in"?
There is also a setting which allows BIAB to "embellish" the song on the "middle chorus".
If that is enabled, it acts the way you noted above. Otherwise it plays through the song and only adheres to the Part Markers.
Good Luck!
LLOYD S
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