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At the reception after the opening performance of "Candide" a lady is purported to have asked Leonard Bernstein how long it took him to write the score.
He replied, "All my life."
--Mac
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Ok, I'm gonna call a couple of you guys out, Mac, Ray others. This thread is basically about the Real Books and you guys are saying a good player should have this stuff memorized. There's approximately 500 tunes in each book.
I'm pretty you guys are talking about the top line "classic standards" like Autumn Leaves, Misty, Green Dolphin, As Time Goes By, the Sinatra, Duke, and Parker stuff, My Funny Valentine, Embraceable, things like that. Fine, I agree I know most of those too. But, when I say everybody in LA has to show up with the Real Books it's because of tunes like these from Book 1: Eighty-One pg 134. 502 Blues, pg 153. Forrest Flower, pg 158. Inner Urge, pg 229. Lucky Southern, pg 276. The Sorcerer, pg 398. Trieste, pg 435. Windows, pg 466. Book 2: Be Bop, pg 21. Dindi, pg 75. Groovy Samba, pg 130. In Pursuit Of The 27th Man, pg 167. Mr. Clean, pg 227. This I Dig Of You, pg 367. Watersign, pg 386.
These are just a few I saw going through the indexes that I've played more than once with various pick up bands over the last 10 years or so. There's a lot more. Some of those groups died and I haven't played their tunes for at least five years like Mr. Clean or The Sorcerer. There's others that I did one time and that's it. If you guys can tell me you have all 1,500 songs memorized, somebody can call Book 2, 408 Lunar Tune and you say, no problem I know that, I'll bow and scrape in front of you and allow myself to be thrown off your stage.
See, the thing is around here those classic standards we all know nobody wants to play any more, they're too boring and unless your crowd is over 75 they don't want to hear it either. I can do Ipanema or How High The Moon in my sleep. I'll certainly do them as requests of if the gig was specifically booked with those tunes in mind but otherwise, guys are liable to just open a book at random and say "Oh, Song For Bilbao, I heard this once, it's cool" and start playing. And that's another one, I've done it maybe 10 times in five years. Got it memorized?
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Hi Bob. I do know most of the tunes you cited from Real Books 1 & 2. I have about 8,000 tunes on a Samsung 10.1 tablet, which I can call up at any time. On a jam session though, no one will be calling obscure tunes. Any session I've been at over the years, if you don't know the tune, you get off the stage. I've learned a lot of tunes over the last 50 years. I'm sure that Mac knows most of them also. Later, Ray
Last edited by raymb1; 11/21/12 05:38 AM.
Asus Q500A i7 Win 10 64 bit 8GB ram 750 HD 15.5" touch screen, BIAB 2017, Casio PX 5s, Xw P1, Center Point Stereo SS V3 and EWI 4000s.
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Well, if the gig in your area requires that you have to take the Realbook onstage with you, so be it.
I am not trying to say that I "NEVER" take a Realbook onstage, I do it all the time. I have to. I take m laptop with the .pdf realbooks stored in it to those gigs, set it on the piano's musicboard and use it any time my stoopid brain needs the reference.
But I'm also here to tell you that there are some of God's children out there who can sit the gig and seem to have invredible memories concerning those Realbook tunes, man.
I have found that different areas of the country, even different venues in a localized area, have their own set of favorites to play. When encountering those songs that are new to me, I also have to use the chart. If I think that there will be repeat performances of that tune in my future, I do try to work out with the song at home and see if I can pound it into this old head so I can enjoy the freedom that comes from doing it that way.
Sometimes I've been called to play a tune that I thought I knew from having played it in the past from memory, only to get to somewhere in the middle and am at a loss. One thing that often gets me out of that situation is the ear. And experience with changes. Also the drill of transposing to the 12 keys when practicing. Of course, if worse comes to worse, SIT OUT for the parts not remembered or not clear and then come back in when you can. Since there are typically numerous repeated choruses in jazz while people "make speech" (solo), it often is the case that the several bars from a middle section that can't be recalled can be "found" or otherwise remembered after a few times through.
Same drill s transcribing, listen to the Bass (or the lowest note being played) which will give you the root of the chord in most instances, that can narrow down what is going on considerably. Learning to always know the Tonic of the chord and at least also the Dominant (5th) tone and being able to sing them or whistle, or just hear them in your head while the song is playing helps as well.
Some of you may not realize that there once was a time, not all that long ago, when Realbook was "illegal" due to copyright laws. Venues were sometimes called to pay fines or even possibly lose their royalty fee agreement for covering live playing of copyrighted works simply because somebody with an interest in such would see Realbooks onstage during performance. I think that situation surely played a role in the old school tradition as well.
But in situations cited such as the one given above by Bob, where the musicians are calling songs that are not familiar to you for whatever reason, by all means use the book if that is what you have to do. "When in Rome, do like a Roman."
Was not making hard fast "rule" or anything of the sort with my comment.
Was trying to say that, over the years I've found out that those songs where I really *know* the changes, the melody, etc. -- well, the performance of them, including the improvisation, takes on an entirely different light. And I've found a FREEDOM in that discipline. (But I'm the FIRST one to suffer memory loss... )
Hope this helps to clear things up.
--Mac
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I have seen people read from the old, illegal Real Book for decades. I've also seen people who have stated that everything must be memorized.
Each extreme has its faults.
Generally I'd rather play with the people who keep the book on stage but don't have their eyes glued to it. They generally seem to have a better attitude and at least they are all playing the same changes.
I have no use for the angry musician on stage. It's called "playing" music for a reason. And you don't have to be angry to play jazz. Charlie Parker was very kind to his fellow musicians and he was one of the all-time greatest alto sax players. When I was very young, our rock and roll band played on a telethon right before the Dave Brubeck Quartet. Paul Desmond was very complimentary about my sax playing and very encouraging. Of course he was being very kind as I was 18 years old, playing rock and roll, and in the infancy of my my musical knowledge.
Of course you want to prepare yourself for the gig, you want to practice and be the best you can be, but when it comes time to performing for the public, if you can't have fun, I don't want to be on stage with you.
So back on topic. Any set of changes that the entire band agrees on are the right changes for them. Pick one and go with them. If you are jamming with two bands using two different books/changes, consider it a challenge and variety. And if it isn't fun, do something else.
That's my take on it anyway, YMMV.
Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton  Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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Quote:
I have seen people read from the old, illegal Real Book for decades. I've also seen people who have stated that everything must be memorized.
Each extreme has its faults.
Generally I'd rather play with the people who keep the book on stage but don't have their eyes glued to it. They generally seem to have a better attitude and at least they are all playing the same changes.
I have my feet firmly planted in both camps. There's absolutely no doubt that knowing a tune cold is better than having to read it from a chart. But, there is also no doubt that where I live I have to show up with the books because of the huge number of tunes that may get called. It's standard procedure when I get called by somebody I'm usually told we have a keyboard book for you but bring books 1 and 2 anyway. Many times the charts in the keyboard book are the same pages from the Real Books but other times they're not and those I have to really pay attention to. I may think I know the tune but their chart is different.
I would say I know maybe two thirds of what gets called and have to read the rest. I hate having my face buried in a book on stage so I have the stand as low as possible and tilted away from me so it looks even lower from the audience perspective. I try to use the books only as a part time crutch like Mac said, maybe glance at the 2nd ending I'm not sure of or something. But still every gig, there's something I've either never played before or it's been years.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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Band-in-a-Box 2026 Video: AI Stems & Notes - split polyphonic audio into instruments and transcribe
This video demonstrates how to use the new AI-Notes feature together with the AI-Stems splitter, allowing you to select an audio file and have it separated into individual stems while transcribing each one to its own MIDI track. AI-Notes converts polyphonic audio—either full mixes or individual instruments—into MIDI that you can view in notation or play back instantly.
Watch the video.
You can see all the 2026 videos on our forum!
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- MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
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- Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
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Video: New User Interface (GUI)
Join Tobin as he takes you on a tour of the new user interface in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®! This modern GUI redesign offers a sleek new look with updated toolbars, refreshed windows, and a smoother workflow. The brand-new side toolbar puts track selection, the MultiPicker Library, and other essential tools right at your fingertips. Plus, our upgraded Multi-View lets you layer multiple windows without overlap, giving you a highly flexible workspace. Many windows—including Tracks, Piano Roll, and more—have been redesigned for improved usability and a cleaner, more intuitive interface, and more!
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You can see all the 2026 videos on our forum!
Introducing XPro Styles PAK 10 – Now Available for Windows Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 10 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 28 RealTracks and RealDrums!
Few things are certain in life: death, taxes, and a brand spankin’ new XPro Styles PAK! In this, the 10th edition of our XPro Styles PAK series, we’ve got 100 styles coming your way! We have the classic 25 styles each from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, and rounding out this volume's wildcard slot is 25 styles in the Praise & Worship genre! A wide spanning genre, you can find everything from rock, folk, country, and more underneath its umbrella. The included 28 RealTracks and RealDrums can be used with any Band-in-a-Box® 2026 (and higher) package.
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Video: XPro Styles PAK 10 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Introducing Xtra Styles PAK 21 – Now Available for Windows Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
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Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 21 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 21 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 21.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 21 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 21 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Introducing XPro Styles PAK 10 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 10 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 28 RealTracks and RealDrums!
Few things are certain in life: death, taxes, and a brand spankin’ new XPro Styles PAK! In this, the 10th edition of our XPro Styles PAK series, we’ve got 100 styles coming your way! We have the classic 25 styles each from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, and rounding out this volume's wildcard slot is 25 styles in the Praise & Worship genre! A wide spanning genre, you can find everything from rock, folk, country, and more underneath its umbrella. The included 28 RealTracks and RealDrums can be used with any Band-in-a-Box® 2026 (and higher) package.
Here’s just a small sampling of what you can look forward to in XPro Styles PAK 10: Soft indie folk worship songs, bumpin’ country boogies, gospel praise breaks, hard rockin’ pop, funky disco grooves, smooth Latin jazz pop, bossa nova fusion, western swing, alternative hip-hop, cool country funk, and much more!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 10 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 10 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Introducing Xtra Styles PAK 21 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest Xtra Styles PAK installment—the all new Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher)!
Rejoice, one and all, for Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box® is here! We’re serving up 200 brand spankin’ new styles to delight your musical taste buds! The first three courses are the classics you’ve come to know and love, including offerings from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, but, not to be outdone, this year’s fourth course is bro country! A wide ranging genre, you can find everything from hip-hop, uptempo outlaw country, hard hitting rock, funk, and even electronica, all with that familiar bro country flair. The dinner bell has been rung, pickup up Xtra Styles PAK 21 today!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Energetic folk rock, raucous train beats, fast country boogies, acid jazz grooves, laid-back funky jams, a bevy of breezy jazz waltzes, calm electro funk, indie synth pop, industrial synth metal, and more bro country than could possibly fit in the back of a pickup truck!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 21 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 21 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 21.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 21 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 21 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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