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There are two main reasons I have not put more effort into RealBand...
- for some reason RealBand seems to load my projects very slowly. A project that loads and generates in about 10 seconds in BIAB takes 90 seconds to load and play in RealBand. And if I export my tracks into Reaper the project loads and plays instantly (of course I understand it is not generating RealTracks!) With my current workflow, by the time I get to the DAW I'm pretty much done with the BIAB functionality so for me the extra processing is just not worth the wait. And in some ways having my DAW regenerate tracks is actually a drawback to me since I do not typically expect a DAW to be changing my tracks on its own!
- I really do not care for the RealBand interface. And this is not just a visual thing. I have found things in both the BIAB and RealBand interfaces that are not up to modern GUI standards and these things interrupt my workflow. For example, in Reaper when I place my cursor over the scroller to the right of the project the mousewheel activates the scroller but with RealBand the same action zooms the project tracks. Another example, I click a track and apparently I accidentally moved the mouse a smidgen and RealBand gave me an unexpected error message, in a bright yellow (DOS-like) window with grammatical errors in the message ("Track contains no music, so it can''t be dropped outside of Realband")! I have other examples but you get my drift!
I don't mean to nit-pick and I realize these GUI issues may not be major for some but they do affect my confidence in the program. I think few would disagree that BIAB has an outdated GUI but what is does is so amazing I am willing to accept and work around that but I don't need to make that compromise with a DAW.
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Each EQ & Effect has a certain "sound" to it, just like DAW's (another thread entirely)
With Reverb's it is the way it handles the important mid range area & it's Tails. If the mid is boingy or metallic, no go for a vocal. If the tail is hissy & grainy as it fades out, it is useless for a quiet acoustic track.
Same with EQ's. Boosting 5db at 10k with a Q of 0.50 using the native PG Music EQ and a Pultec Emulation is night & day. The PG Music EQ will be "peaky" and harsh where the Pultec will sound smoother and less fatiguing on the ears.
Describing sound is near impossible, and I would suggest taking a few hours & surfing You Tube or Viemo for folks that have done comparisons on this stuff. Tho YT audio sucks, you can still hear the difference.
i5 3.20GHz, 32gb RAM, 1tb SSD OS, 12tb HDD, 4gb gForce vid card, 32" monitor, Audient id44, Win10 x64, BiaB/RB 2023, Reaper 6,IK Multimedia Total Studio 3.5 MAX, Waves 10
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Quote:
for some reason RealBand seems to load my projects very slowly. A project that loads and generates in about 10 seconds in BIAB takes 90 seconds to load and play in RealBand. And if I export my tracks into Reaper the project loads and plays instantly (of course I understand it is not generating RealTracks!)
John, look at what you just said here. "export to Reaper". Do the same thing to Real Band and it opens instantly too. Use the D&D DAW function. You're opening a Biab file in RB so yes, it's regenerating all the parts. What RB is telling you is how long it really takes to generate those tracks. Biab has a trick called "fast generation". It starts playing your tune before it has finished generating because 99% of the time you don't stop the song right away. If you stop it too soon and then hit play immediately after, Biab locks up because it hasn't finished generating.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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For me, it's processes that I've begun using, that I simply don't want to give up.
It's like automobiles. Nearly every vehicle in showrooms today has cruise control and power locks, power windows, automatic transmissions (at least here in the US), CD players, etc. etc. etc.
These are things that are not central to being what an automobile is but they have become features that people are willing to pay for because they have become conveniences. None of them arguably make the 'automobile' aspect of transportation any 'better'.
Here are the processes and functions that caused me to leave years ago:
ASIO use for playthrough of VSTi - Once I got this bug, I couldn't let go. I think it's now a feature.
Tempo integration of VSTi - for the only sound generating plugin I've ever purchased; Jamstix. Without this feature, Jamstix is an expensive drum sample playback plugin. With it, it's a decent substitute for a drummer.
Tempo integration for effect plugins. I only use delays and autofilters that have note values instead of needing to calculate mS and so forth. If I decide to change the tempo, it's just one less thing to keep track of (like shifting in a car).
Flexible signal routing that is more 'modular' in nature. I have spent the past few days babysitting my DAW, as I've been eq'ing some CDs for a friend that has significant hearing loss in his left ear. I was able to make an 'equipment rack' where I chained together 4 linear phase graphic EQs for each ear, after a gain reduction plugin on each channel, and what I did with the 4 EQs for the left ear was make a cumulative EQ which basically 'reverses' my friends left-to-right hearing sensitivity. I had to put in a 30 dB or so gain reduction first on each side because his loss is at points 30 dB differences between left and right ears. I did all of this 'graphically' meaning, I wired the whole thing together with virtual patch cords. In the right side, I also put the 4 EQs in series, but I made no gain adjustments - I strictly put them in there to account for the delays that happen for each stage of the left ear. The end result sounds terrible to me, but to him, it brings tears of joy to his eyes - literally.
What I miss by not using RB/BIAB:
1. Notation - the DAW I use does not have any notation to speak of. Seeing as I really can only read a single melody line these days, it really doesn't leave me out of my MO too much.
2. Auto-orchestration (this is NOT a standard feature with any other software). I bought Jamstix for this for drums, which is pretty much the only instrument that I typically use that I can't play serviceably. If I used horns regularly, then I would be much closer to pulling the trigger on RB/BIAB. It's probably a chicken-or-the-egg thing, but I've never composed with horn parts in mind, likely because I have no idea how to write for them.
Anyway, those are my reasons.
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Quote:
Quote:
for some reason RealBand seems to load my projects very slowly. A project that loads and generates in about 10 seconds in BIAB takes 90 seconds to load and play in RealBand. And if I export my tracks into Reaper the project loads and plays instantly (of course I understand it is not generating RealTracks!)
John, look at what you just said here. "export to Reaper". Do the same thing to Real Band and it opens instantly too. Use the D&D DAW function. You're opening a Biab file in RB so yes, it's regenerating all the parts. What RB is telling you is how long it really takes to generate those tracks. Biab has a trick called "fast generation". It starts playing your tune before it has finished generating because 99% of the time you don't stop the song right away. If you stop it too soon and then hit play immediately after, Biab locks up because it hasn't finished generating.
Bob
Bob, that's why I said "of course I understand it is not generating RealTracks!".
But my bottom line is if I was comparing only DAW features Reaper would win hands-down (for me). The only benefit RealBand might bring me over Reaper is the ability to work with RealTracks. And now we're back to slow track generation. Honestly I kinda assumed my system had some problem but if you're telling me RealBand is always that slow in generating RealTracks songs that's even more reason for me to use BIAB to do the generation and my DAW for arranging everything. I have not been bothered by the time BIAB takes to generate my songs and once I get the tracks I want it is simple to export and use the DAW.
But tell me if I'm missing something! If you remove RealTracks from the conversation is there any other compelling feature RealBand has as a DAW that I am missing out on?
Last edited by JohnJohnJohn; 12/27/12 06:26 PM.
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Yes, I caught that John but you're complaining about the slow generation times when you're exporting the tracks to Reaper. All I was saying is you can also export the tracks to RB. No need to generate them so from that point of view they're the same. Export to Reaper, export to RB. About the same amount of time.
What I'm curious about and I ask this because I'm considering buying another DAW is exactly what can you do in Reaper that you can't do in RB?
So much of this is what your priorities are. I do a lot of midi work so I need a good midi editor. RB is a pretty good midi editor and from reading a lot of different forums, Reaper is not a very good midi editor. From what I'm seeing Cubase is the best midi editor out there, a lot of pros think it's better than ProTools, Logic and Sonar. They say it's because Steinberg practically invented midi and they did invent the VST standard. So I am looking for specific points of comparison.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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After all these years I've just now done a song in real band...
I've always just used Band in a Box exported the tracks 2 waves and opened them in Sonar.
I would swap some of the different tracks around and add tracks in the melody space at cetera.
Looks like that might be a little easier in real band.
Plus I call Eddie when I get confused.
Before that I exported to wave burned the tracks to a CD pop them into the Roland 2480 And even edit them with sonar via V Fire.
I like the plugins and synthesizers in Sonar and the interface.
And the V 700.
Then I play some guitar and keyboards on the tune and remove what real band tracks I don't need.
Mix in SONAR X 1 ( X 2 as soon as I get a new computer or upgrade mine) then edit and master in sony sound forge pro.
WSS
Last edited by Westside Steve; 12/28/12 05:34 AM.
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I think PG's midi editor(s) are the best in the business now that there is piano roll. PG has one particular midi editing function that is better than any other out there IMO.
It's the mode where you are looking at a staff, and the notes are on the staff, and you can switch between note lengths as horizontal bars off of the note, and velocity as vertical bars from the notes.
IMO, this is the most logical way to represent MIDI data for folks that are musically oriented from a more classical standpoint. Lots of people that use piano roll editors have no idea how to read notes from a staff and piano roll bars are what looks like music to them visually.
PG's method is the 'bridge' between staff view, where note lengths are 'quantized' with typical notation, and piano roll, where note lengths are visually specific. Using a vertical bar length for velocity value makes alot of sense to me as a piano player.
I've never understood why more DAW software does not emulate this piano roll/staff hybrid like PG's method. It's probably the one feature I miss the most by not using PG products any longer.
I'm sure I could grok with the auto-accompaniment part of PG products, but to get access to those, I'm looking at an expensive bill. I used PowerTracks Pro Audio, which I bought for $29 way back in the day, IIRC, and I paid for two different $19 updates, so I was a cheapskate customer. I would want to buy in at the Megapack level at $199, and I'm just not ready to go there. There's a guitar I want to buy first.
-Scott
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Quote:
Yes, I caught that John but you're complaining about the slow generation times when you're exporting the tracks to Reaper. All I was saying is you can also export the tracks to RB. No need to generate them so from that point of view they're the same. Export to Reaper, export to RB. About the same amount of time.
I was not complaining...just adding my comment to the thread of why I do or don't use RealBand. And I covered the point that exporting is different in my original post.
Quote:
What I'm curious about and I ask this because I'm considering buying another DAW is exactly what can you do in Reaper that you can't do in RB?
So much of this is what your priorities are. I do a lot of midi work so I need a good midi editor. RB is a pretty good midi editor and from reading a lot of different forums, Reaper is not a very good midi editor. From what I'm seeing Cubase is the best midi editor out there, a lot of pros think it's better than ProTools, Logic and Sonar. They say it's because Steinberg practically invented midi and they did invent the VST standard. So I am looking for specific points of comparison.
I have no idea about midi as I do not use it at all.
BIAB very well may be the most amazing piece of software I have ever used; I cannot say enough good stuff about it! And yet, of all the software I use currently, its interface is one of the most outdated and uncomfortable IMHO. But there is nothing else like it so that won't stop me from enjoying it's amazing goodness! RealBand, on the other hand, is a DAW. And, other than the RealTracks capability, there are many full-featured DAWs with modern interfaces. For me, the mixing process is one that needs to be very smooth and easy flowing. Reaper provides that for me.
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Quote:
RealBand, on the other hand, is a DAW. And, other than the RealTracks capability, there are many full-featured DAWs with modern interfaces. For me, the mixing process is one that needs to be very smooth and easy flowing. Reaper provides that for me.
This is at the root of this long standing discussion. Yes, it is a DAW. Yes there are other DAWs with smoother interfaces. But the fact that Real Band generates music and none of the others can takes it to a level not unlike when you and your best female friend realize "Hey. We could also have sex if we wanted to." Thus was born the acronym, FWB.
A standard DAW is like your best female friend before FWB.
Real band is like your best female friend after FWB.
Still your friend, but with benefits. Still a DAW, but with benefits.
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Just give a very critical listen to the vocal reverb on a top commercial recording and then compare that to your Midiverb on one of your vocal tracks. Ignore the quality of the singing, just listen to the reverb tails. Huge difference. A pro reverb is clean, pristine, fades out beautifully while any $99 home reverb is noisy, grainy and a bit sloppy in comparison. Money can buy happiness sometimes.
I'm happy to say I can't hear that difference, and now that you've pointed it out to me, I will go to great lengths to avoid the comparison so I can continue to be amazed and astonished at what the cheap units are doing for me. 
...and, money can buy happiness far more often than people give it credit for - especially when it comes to houses, health care, and certain types of education...that said, there are some types of happiness it can't buy - but that doesn't negate the kinds of happiness it can buy
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Quote:
Quote:
RealBand, on the other hand, is a DAW. And, other than the RealTracks capability, there are many full-featured DAWs with modern interfaces. For me, the mixing process is one that needs to be very smooth and easy flowing. Reaper provides that for me.
This is at the root of this long standing discussion. Yes, it is a DAW. Yes there are other DAWs with smoother interfaces. But the fact that Real Band generates music and none of the others can takes it to a level not unlike when you and your best female friend realize "Hey. We could also have sex if we wanted to." Thus was born the acronym, FWB.
A standard DAW is like your best female friend before FWB.
Real band is like your best female friend after FWB.
Still your friend, but with benefits. Still a DAW, but with benefits.
You're assuming RealBand, as a DAW, is comparable to the others and IMHO it is not. But that is just my opinion and I offer a full money back guarantee on all of my opinions.
Now that we are all in agreement on that shall we cover religion next or politics?
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Try out an Impulse Response plugin to rival the big studio 'verbs.
These are done by actually taking timing samples from real sources and using the magic of software to imply that onto your audio.
You can also have fun collecting various Impulse Response files that emulate everything from studio 'verbs of various brand and type to files taken from actual real halls. I've got one that purports to be La Scala, for example (but have many others as well).
AND, they are not just limited to the spacial, such as reverbs. I've got another that implies the sweetness of the old analog magnetic tape recording process to a pcm digital audio track. Slap it onto those electric guitar tracks and yer suddenly back in the 70s sound. Etc.
Likely quite a few of the big studio reverb sounds you hear are now done with Impulse Response inside of Protools or the likes.
--Mac
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the beauty of electronic music construction is that the final solution doesn't have to come from one vendor. It all magically works together so we can use the best features of each product, and the best products we can afford
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Quote:
Try out an Impulse Response plugin to rival the big studio 'verbs.
I used the free S.I.R.1 Convolution Reverb and Samplicity’s Bricasti M7 Impulse Response for years until I finally broke down and bought S.I.R.2....but I still use those free M7 IR's most of the time.
This last year I have been placing the M7 Ambiance IR's first in line, then using Breverb2 for the tails. A "trick" I have read a 1000 times, but blew off...now I can see the possibility of it, especially on vocals & acoustic instruments.
Sorry for the derail..... 
i5 3.20GHz, 32gb RAM, 1tb SSD OS, 12tb HDD, 4gb gForce vid card, 32" monitor, Audient id44, Win10 x64, BiaB/RB 2023, Reaper 6,IK Multimedia Total Studio 3.5 MAX, Waves 10
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This last year I have been placing the M7 Ambiance IR's first in line, then using Breverb2 for the tails. A "trick" I have read a 1000 times, ...
And that is how it becomes very easy to have 7 plugins used on a vocal track. Some here seemed surprised by this, but it seemed a pretty efficient number to me. All said and done 7 vocal treatments is pretty good!
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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You're assuming RealBand, as a DAW, is comparable to the others and IMHO it is not.
Okay. I have Sonar. My pal has Protools. When I sit down to his Protools, I can select a track, record piano, select another track, record bass, select another track, record guitar. That's what a Digital Audio Workstation does. I can do that here on Sonar, "that" being what a Digital Audio Workstation does. I can also do that here on Real Band, "that" again being what a Digital Audio Workstation does.
Now, you want to tweak? I can open up any of those three programs and use Ozone, or Sonifex, or Bob's Plugins, as long as they are a .dll file, and add reverb, EQ, phase, distortion, flanger.... I can use them with any of those three DAW programs. I have never found a plugin that didn't work once I registered the .dll properly. I have had them fail when I did it wrong.
Now again I ask, what is it that some other DAW does that RB doesn't outside of it being the one you are familiar with and PREFER to use? And when your answer is ___________________, then please tell me if that DAW program will generate drums, bass, piano, rhythm guitar, banjo, mandolin, fiddle..... so I don't have spend hours playing and replaying stuff to fix all the clams.
Every one of these discussions, and I see one every month or so, eventually boils down to "it's the one I have been using for the last 295 years". I have never really gotten a straight answer. Very few of us are writing scores for Miramax here and you can nitpick about miniscule things forever and never finish a song.
I have seen "this one" go on about Reaper, and "that one" about Protools, and yet "another one" about Logic, Sonar or Cubase, or whatever, but I never find one glaring shortcoming about RB that would stop the show. The gist of almost every one of those conversations is "I have been doing it this way since before there was electricity." Okay, I understand, but you know, you are allowed to break Thanksgiving tradition and serve prime rib instead of turkey, and you are allowed to try something new.
I would like to ask someone to compile a list of what these glaring shortcomings are in RB that would prevent someone from working. Notice I didn't say "would take you out of your comfort zone". So far all I have seen is the lack of ability to use Rewire. And to that I ask "What did you do before there WAS Rewire?"
/hacker hat on
I am now interested so tell me what you know isn't working and I will acquire it and test.
//hacker hat off
Of course there will be coding adjustment needed just like there was a coding change needed to address more than one physical out put, but unless someone gives them something more than "doesn't work", they can't fix it. And, as a bonus, they may be able to write their own version of something rather than make existing be compatible. The PG codemonkeys are really good at what they do. This is how products mature. Looking forward to playing with this.
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.
Last edited by Joe V; 12/28/12 06:59 PM.
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Joe,
You have no idea how easy it is to get a fire storm going on here over that. Nasty stuff.
I would steer away from it even in jest.
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And when your answer is ___________________, then please tell me if that DAW program will generate drums, bass, piano, rhythm guitar, banjo, mandolin, fiddle..... so I don't have spend hours playing and replaying stuff to fix all the clams.
This is the ONLY thing that RealBand has over any other DAW, and that is even questionable UNLESS folks like us like & use the fantastic AI that PGMusic supplies us with. There are a lot of folks that still consider RealTracks / RealDrums "cheating", and in the ball park of cheap Casio Auto-Arrangements backing tracks...their loss!
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The gist of almost every one of those conversations is "I have been doing it this way since before there was electricity." I would like to ask someone to compile a list of what these glaring shortcomings are in RB that would prevent someone from working.Quote:
It looks like this was covered in the above answerers & else where on the forum. Since it does not affect yourself why do ya need a list? You have experience with Sonar & ProTools, how about you create a list of what RealBand does better-faster-slower-does not do....besides creating realistic tracks from the chords you enter!
/hacker hat on
I gave my list of what problems I was having, and a short list of software that was having problems in RB. If you feel the need to spend the $$ on them, be my guest! LOL
//hacker hat off
Tempo Matching & Solid VST Support are a need, not a feature in today's DAW world. These shortcomings place RB in the Linux Audio world, because you can record-edit-manipulate audio all day in Ardour/Mixbus, or midi in Rosegarden & Open Octave, but since I can not either tempo match a drum track or delay, OR use the VST-VSTi's that I have inve$$ted in it gets put to the side for something that does work with these items.
And I agree that the crew at PGMusic are heads & shoulders above a LOT of companies out there both in vision and programing. The problems are NOT show stopping, you can still use RB & work around them, but why? I found a system, a work flow, that works FOR ME. So instead of sitting around waiting, I am making music using the BiaB - DAW of choice & loving it!
And all of this is, once again, a IMHO, YMMV, yada yada post. RB does not work for everyone, and there is a list of problems that has been there for a long time.
i5 3.20GHz, 32gb RAM, 1tb SSD OS, 12tb HDD, 4gb gForce vid card, 32" monitor, Audient id44, Win10 x64, BiaB/RB 2023, Reaper 6,IK Multimedia Total Studio 3.5 MAX, Waves 10
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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Band-in-a-Box 2025 Italian Version is Here!
Cari amici
È stata aggerate la versione in Italiano del programma più amato dagli appassionati di musica, il nostro Band-in-a-Box.
Questo è il link alla nuova versione 2025.
Di seguito i link per scaricare il pacchetti di lingua italiana aggiornati per Band-in-a-Box e RealBand, anche per chi avesse già comprato la nuova versione in inglese.
Band-in-a-Box 2025 - Italiano
RealBand 2025 - Italiano
Band-in-a-Box 2025 French Version is Here!
Bonjour à tous,
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 pour Windows est disponible en Français.
Le téléchargement se fait à partir du site PG Music
Pour ceux qui auraient déjà acheté la version 2025 de Band-in-a-Box (et qui donc ont une version anglaise), il est possible de "franciser" cette version avec les patchs suivants:
BIAB 2025 - francisation
RealBand 2025 - francisation
Voilà, enjoy!
Band-in-a-Box 2025 German Version is Here!
Update Your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 to Build 1128 for Windows Today!
Already using Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Windows®? Download Build 1128 now from our Support Page to enjoy the latest enhancements and improvements from our team.
Stay up to date—get the latest update now!
Update to RealBand® 2025 Build 5 Windows Today!
Already using RealBand® 2025 for Windows®? Download Build 5 now from our Support Page to ensure you have the latest enhancements and improvements from our team.
Get the latest update today!
PowerTracks Pro Audio 2025 for Windows is Here!
PowerTracks Pro Audio 2025 is here! This new version introduces many features, including VST3 support, the ability to load or import a .FLAC file, a reset option for track height in the Tracks window, a taller Timeline on the Notation window toolbar, new freeze buttons in the Tracks window, three toolbar modes (two rows, single row, and none), the improved Select Patch dialog with text-based search and numeric patch display, a new button in the DirectX/VST window to copy an effects group, and more!
First-time packages start at only $49. Already a PowerTracks Pro Audio user? Upgrade for as little as $29!
www.pgmusic.com/powertracks.htm
Video: Summary of the New Band-in-a-Box® App for iOS®
Join Tobin as he takes you on a tour of the new Band-in-a-Box® app for iOS®! Designed for musicians, singer-songwriters, and educators, this powerful tool lets you create, play, and transfer songs effortlessly on your iPhone® or iPad®—anytime, anywhere.
Band-in-a-Box® for iOS® :Summary video.
Check out the forum post for more information.
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