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I read somewhere here recently that someone said one of the benefits of buying Audiophile Edition [Wav files] is that BIAB is quicker generating new songs compared to WMA files which need uncompressing first. Well I asked PG Music online chat and was told the opposite that because the Wav files are much bigger it takes BIAB longer to regenerate new styles.
I'm finding that it takes BIAB a number of seconds regenerating each new style as I try them out one by one for each song. I would like the fastest way possible. My PC is no slouch, currently running Intel 3Ghz Quad Core, 8Gb RAM, Rapter HDD but the regeneration is slowing me down.
My only other thought is perhaps the Wav files regeneration is slower because of the AudioPhile USB 2.0 Hard drive compared to internal Sata Hard drive speeds?
Any thoughts on this?
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No doubt, I'm someone who would have said that the .WAV files would decrease somewhat the time needed for regeneration.
If PG Music now says that this is not the case, all I can say is that something has changed since we were given the answer several years ago.
The original explanation was as you said, that the compressed .WMA file first needed to be uncompressed. This was the reason PG Music provided the Uncompress command in the RealTracks menu in Preferences. Doing the uncompress did not improve the quality, and took almost 10 times as much space on the hard drive, so there would have been no good reason to do it unless there were some benefit, and that benefit was slightly faster speed of regeneration. [This command is no longer present in version 2013 for RealTracks. In RealDrums, it is still there and is called Install.]
As for what drive to run them from, I placed the RealTracks on an internal 10,000 RPM hard drive. I then deleted the ones I know I won't be using. The supplied PG Music hard drive is the backup.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Agree, I bet the USB is slowing things down. I know that the one & only time I tried running BiaB from the external drive was the last time....
i5 3.20GHz, 32gb RAM, 1tb SSD OS, 12tb HDD, 4gb gForce vid card, 32" monitor, Audient id44, Win10 x64, BiaB/RB 2023, Reaper 6,IK Multimedia Total Studio 3.5 MAX, Waves 10
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If you are after speed with a computer touting the specs you mention, no doubt that USB is a bottleneck.
Installing an internal hard drive and transferring your realtracks and realdrums files to it should certainly show some improvement in loading time.
You might also check the prefs for realtracks and see if the fast loading of realtracks is checked, your cpu should be able to handle that.
--Mac
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PaulH
For my benefit only, since no quantitative measurements have been mentioned just "slow," "fast," and a "number of seconds," are the "number of seconds" less than say
- 2 seconds,
- between 2-5,
- between 5-10,
or more than 10?
And for clarification are RT's on an internal drive or the USB drive?
Just BALLPARK is all I'm asking for - a stake in the ground as it were.
Larry
Last edited by Larry Kehl; 01/06/13 05:21 PM.
Win10Pro,i9,64GB,2TBSSD+20TBHDDs,1080TI,BIAB'24,Scarlett18i8,Montage7,Fusion 8HD,QS8,Integra7,XV5080,QSR,SC-8850,SPLAT,FL21&others,Komp.14,IK suite&others, just a guitar player-AXE FX III &FM9T, FishmanTP, MIDIGuitar2, GK2/3'sw/GI20
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Quote:
You might also check the prefs for realtracks and see if the fast loading of realtracks is checked, your cpu should be able to handle that.
--Mac
Here you go, these are my default settings. Looks like its already checked.
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Quote:
PaulH
For my benefit only, since no quantitative measurements have been mentioned just "slow," "fast," and a "number of seconds," are the "number of seconds" less than say
- 2 seconds,
- between 2-5,
- between 5-10,
or more than 10?
And for clarification are RT's on an internal drive or the USB drive?
Just BALLPARK is all I'm asking for - a stake in the ground as it were.
Larry
I timed a number of them and they can all vary but those tested fall between 5-10sec
All BIAB files are installed on my C: drive which is 10,000rpm.
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Paul, on your machine, you should also check the High Quality Stretching checkbox.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Also, I notice from your RealTracks dialog screen shot that you do not have a custom path for RealTracks. This must mean that you are running the entire program from the external hard drive.
What I recommend you do at a minimum is run the SETUP program on the hard drive and install the program only to your internal hard drive (this is one of the four installation options). Then you start the program from the internal drive and go back into this RealTracks dialog and point to the external drive for your RealTracks.
Or, if you have room, as mentioned above, you will see more of a performance improvement by installing both the program and the RealTracks/RealDrums to an internal hard drive.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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And I would still like to know the definitive answer on this one:
"Well I asked PG Music online chat and was told the opposite that because the Wav files are much bigger it takes BIAB longer to regenerate new styles."
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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I've noticed for some time that a Realtrack Soloist takes longer to generate than any of the Accompanist type Realtrack files.
Not complaining, just pointing that out.
--Mac
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BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Hi Matt,
I don't think we gave the correct answer, or maybe there was a misunderstanding, but you're right: The audiophile version should generate a bit faster because it's using the uncompressed waves directly. However with all things considered, it turns out to be a relatively small difference. In other words, there are other factors which play a more important role in determining the speed of generation. And as Mac pointed out Soloists have larger databases, so they can take quite a bit longer than an accompaniment-type RealTracks to generate.
Andrew
PG Music Inc.
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BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Quote:
Also, I notice from your RealTracks dialog screen shot that you do not have a custom path for RealTracks. This must mean that you are running the entire program from the external hard drive.
No Matt, I bought the EverythingPak and downloaded all files and do not have the Audiophile Edition which is on an external HDD.
Everything I have is installed on my 10,000rpm C: drive.
I am considering the Audiophile Edition because I want the best possible audio and speed but there are many drawbacks to consider - higher sale price point, postage cost to UK, import duty, USB 2.0 only drive, Costly future upgrades. I just don't know if the extra cost will be worth it? If I could hear that audiophile was better and BIAB were to regenerate more quickly I would probably upgrade to audiophile. But one thing I'm learning is that some things don't always live up to expectations.
I think PG Music should consider demoing the differences as a selling point. at least customers would be able to make an informed decision when buying?....Just a thought!
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I think that trying to webstream or make a .wav format file downloadable would be problematic.
Realistically, when dealing with anything "Audiophile" in nature, the Law of Diminishing Returns should be considered.
In other words, while there is a difference between the standard version of BB and the Audiophile version, that difference may be slighter than it appears on the face of it.
And, I'm not a betting man, but odds would be in my favor if people were to ever be put to the true double-blindfold testing that compared songfiles made with both offerings.
Human perceptions being what they are, I'm certain that results would be all over the place.
--Mac
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As said before, you'd have to have a bit more precise, scientific equipment instead of the human ear to notice a difference.
Cheers.
Cheers, Mike My Music * Asus ROG Strix G15CF 32 GB DDR4 4TB HDD + 1 TB SSD NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 8GB Win 11 AKAI EIE PRO Sound Interface. BIAB/RB 2024 UltraPak Build - Latest
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Have a friend take a CD that you know well, rip a track to .wav & then convert it to .wma, best settings (I can not remember if RT are at the highest or not).
Make sure the playback levels are the SAME.
Then give it a causal listen to, say 3 times thru....can you tell the difference?
Now give it a focused, concentrated best headphone - earbud - speaker listen to, focusing on the High-Mid's to High End (5k to 15k area) & the Low Mid Punch (400Hz to 800Hz area) of the tracks....can you tell the difference?
A few years back I was challenged constantly about this, and got it right 80% of the time. The times I was wrong was either when the test was skewed (by accident or on purpose) or I was just flat out wrong.
I don't by into the double blind test 100% accurate debate, because everyone's ears changes every day, thus everyday the test will be different, just like the one I propose above.
Science is not the measure of art, and music is an art that, just like anything worth doing, has it's own intricacies that is more felt at times than can be measured.....
Anyway, if you can not hear the difference between the .wma and the .wav file during a casual listen, then neither can your audience.
And as usual this is a IMHO, YMMV, yada yada type of post, some will disagree, that's fine, it does not affect the results of my years of doing this! LOL
i5 3.20GHz, 32gb RAM, 1tb SSD OS, 12tb HDD, 4gb gForce vid card, 32" monitor, Audient id44, Win10 x64, BiaB/RB 2023, Reaper 6,IK Multimedia Total Studio 3.5 MAX, Waves 10
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Where there is a difference is that compressing an entire wav file with two stereo tracks and multiple instruments and vocals on it is a little bit different from what BiaB Realtracks do, which is to compress separated tracks with only one instrument on each.
Yes, there will still be differences as compared to fullscale PCM audio .wav format, but it seems that the largest difference found is in the high frequency content. There is a lot less of the kind of anomalies that rear their ugly head when the compression takes place over the entire single stereo multitracked or multi-instrument file.
So I'm speaking of a different double blind test anyway.
--Mac
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