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Really? The "same thing"?
Yep. Same thing!
Okey Dokey. All businesses are basically the same. Econ 101. 
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I told my kids stuff for free for years. No charge. But they've no time for me now. Too busy. Can't spare my back and load some stuff for the dump. It's still up to me.
They might live 20 minutes away, seems like days away.
But if they need to borrow the car, a tool, the big dryer, my pickup, or whatever, consider that a given.
Still a one way street.
For 27 years now Mom and Dad are here for Sunday supper. And I run Birthdays, Christmas, Easter, Thanksgiving...bbq's.
ONCE, 3 years ago, Father's Day was not me and my Dad, with my kids here, it was at my Son's. And I framed the pictures.
There is a song about this right?
Free Advice.
I'm off to play the blues and black coffee, love for sale, etc. Need to feel morose. The weather helps. Gray for months, wet, rainy, sad and dreary.
I worked as a consultant for many years. In that business I made good money. Never did in music though. The best were piano playing gigs at the holiday inn on a busy weekend. Sometimes Wednesdays were best. Travelling guys, 1/2 way through a week away, sad, drunk, and willing to share a dime.
Right brother? Share a dime.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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How could I discount an opinion based on conjecture? 
so it was a confession? 
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Quote:
Quote:
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Really? The "same thing"?
Yep. Same thing!
Okey Dokey. All businesses are basically the same. Econ 101.
close enough for this conversation. ya gotta get out and hustle whether you are playing music or running a business. any time you spend sad over the other guy under bidding you is wasted cause you lost the gig and the time!
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Heres my take. I am a business professional who is in the fortunate position of earning my money from that. I am fortunate in that I don’t need to earn money from my music. If I am careful I will never need to earn my money from music. It would be nice but I am under no illusions that I will ever earn as much from playing music as I do from writing specifications for business systems. Music is my hobby.
A friend of mine has started a food market. She has done a huge amount of work, a lot of it for the community. It is just starting to take off. I play there every Saturday morning for free. It is a win-win situation. She gets the free musician and I get the exposure (and BTW I do improve hugely every week). I love it! Moreover I display a banner with my website and give out cards. I think it is only a matter of time before people are asking me to do private functions, where I can charge something. I am also not about to start charging her when her market is doing better. We will grow together.
I don’t think I am taking the money out of another musician’s mouth as she would not be in a position (or probably willing) to pay anybody and would just have music on a pa system. I am interested in other people’s take on this.
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Joanne, I think what you are doing is great! Do you receive any money from tips? Seems that might be a way to at least cover expenses. Also if you have a CD you should do a raffle every hour and give one away. Maybe sell your CD there as well. BTW, lovely pic of you and your guitar on your home page!
Last edited by JohnJohnJohn; 01/14/13 01:19 AM.
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Hi John.
Thanks so much! Not getting tips. Don’t really feel it is appropriate but the vendors are always giving me free stuff to eat and drink. My expenses are minimal, only petrol to get there and it is not far. Now just to put that CD together. Have already had a couple of requests for a cd but don’t have enough original stuff and don’t want to infringe copyright by recording covers. I am going to start performing my original stuff in between covers…soon.........soon…..
Thanks for the compliment on the photo. The same friend who started the market is also a photographer and we did this shoot together.
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Joanne, I think I am on a similar journey as you! I have a "real" job that I love and do not see me depending on music to pay my bills any time soon! I just started writing my own songs less than a year ago. And I bought Band In A Box back in September! I am positively thrilled with my new songs and with BIAB to produce accompaniment for them!! I'll have a CD in 2013 for sure but it is mostly a bucket list item rather than a retirement plan!
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“I just started writing my own songs less than a year ago.”
“I'll have a CD in 2013 for sure...”
“But then, this is the internet, and one can "be" whatever one wants- a musician, a guru, a genius, a songwriter, pick a delusion. One only needs to make the claim.”
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Quote:
“But then, this is the internet, and one can "be" whatever one wants- a musician, a guru, a genius, a songwriter, pick a delusion. One only needs to make the claim.”
Often, people say things that have hidden messages - those messages can be positive or negative.
I remember telling one of my bosses "Look, I know this job may end any day now, that the company can easily replace me with a lower paid worker, that I only have a job because you guys allow me to be here - I know all those things, but please, don't remind me of them every single day, and make me FEEL like you actually value me - it will be better for both of us." Actually - maybe I just told a coworker that I'd like to say that to the boss 
I think maybe the quoted expression falls into that category where it's true, and most people are living on 'dreams' that are unlikely, or low percentage to ever happen (especially mine !!). But those dreams make people happy and keep them working toward their goals and passions. Don't remind them that their initial 'lofty' goals often don't materialize as envisioned. Because the people that persist fueled by the energy of their dreams often reach far higher than they would have without that energy. Don't squash their dreams.
...Just my opinion...or as is often said on this site,
....Just Sayin'
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Quote:
“I just started writing my own songs less than a year ago.”
“I'll have a CD in 2013 for sure...”
“But then, this is the internet, and one can "be" whatever one wants- a musician, a guru, a genius, a songwriter, pick a delusion. One only needs to make the claim.”
Still don't get your point as I never claimed to be a performing musician or anything like that! All I did was disagree with your position about musicians playing for free. But so what? We disagree a lot around here. I don't think I ever disagreed with someone and accused them of being delusional! :/
Bottom line for me is a person (whether musician or small businessman) shouldn't spend much time worrying about being undercut by their competition and instead should find a positive way to work around this by seeking new customers, being so good that they always hire you, coming up with something new, etc. And if you are a musician (or my competitor) trying to break in and willing to work for nothing, go for it! The universe has a way of working these things out.
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Liars abound.
But those who tell the truth are out here as well.
As with all things, you can tell them apart by the fruits that they bear.
--Mac
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Quote:
“I just started writing my own songs less than a year ago.”
“I'll have a CD in 2013 for sure...”
Hey John,
Go for it 100%. If you make it, fine. If you don't, at least you tried.
Don S.
Last edited by Curmudgeon; 01/14/13 03:32 PM.
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Quote:
I think maybe the quoted expression falls into that category where it's true, and most people are living on 'dreams' that are unlikely, or low percentage to ever happen (especially mine !!). But those dreams make people happy and keep them working toward their goals and passions. Don't remind them that their initial 'lofty' goals often don't materialize as envisioned. Because the people that persist fueled by the energy of their dreams often reach far higher than they would have without that energy. Don't squash their dreams.
this thought deserves a thread of its own. It is a significant observation, IMO, and its a topic on which people have strong diametrically opposing opinions. I've seen arguments in both direction on this forum, and it would be interesting to hear people develop their preference for "keeping it real" as opposed to "pursuing the dream" (and maybe never catching it) and everything in between.
It shows up in the way people critique songs posted in the the user showcase, among other places.
For example, if somebody posts a song and it sucks, do you point out every flaw so he can improve? (or do you say unrealistically positive things so he feels good about his song and doesn't give up?)
If so, how do you reconcile the duplicity of offering severe criticism of an expert's superior work when you are offering praise for something that is clearly inferior?
What is the functional divide between the dream and reality?
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Quote:
this thought deserves a thread of its own. It is a significant observation, IMO, and its a topic on which people have strong diametrically opposing opinions. I've seen arguments in both direction on this forum, and it would be interesting to hear people develop their preference for "keeping it real" as opposed to "pursuing the dream" (and maybe never catching it) and everything in between.
It shows up in the way people critique songs posted in the the user showcase, among other places.
For example, if somebody posts a song and it sucks, do you point out every flaw so he can improve? (or do you say unrealistically positive things so he feels good about his song and doesn't give up?)
If so, how do you reconcile the duplicity of offering severe criticism of an expert's superior work when you are offering praise for something that is clearly inferior?
What is the functional divide between the dream and reality?
Pat, this def could/should be a thread of its own. I have struggled with this forever with all of my art. When I ask for feedback I want honesty, yet, I also really love a glowing review from a friend even when I know I didn't completely deserve it. Plus it is all so subjective. Maybe the song didn't suck but the reviewer just hates that song. And maybe considering the singer/songwriter they have improved 100% since their last song so there is greatness to talk about. Lemme know if you figure this one out!
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Well, here's one freebie gig the guy can keep as far as I'm concerned: Band on SKIs? Always thought there was something weird going on in the Trombone sections... --Mac
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That wasn't you, was it Lawrie??
Cheers,
Keith
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Nuh, but I'm thinking of trying it next time I go for a snow holiday 
--=-- My credo: If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing - just ask my missus, she'll tell ya  --=--You're only paranoid if you're wrong!
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Quote:
this thought deserves a thread of its own. It is a significant observation, IMO, and its a topic on which people have strong diametrically opposing opinions. I've seen arguments in both direction on this forum, and it would be interesting to hear people develop their preference for "keeping it real" as opposed to "pursuing the dream" (and maybe never catching it) and everything in between.
It shows up in the way people critique songs posted in the the user showcase, among other places.
For example, if somebody posts a song and it sucks, do you point out every flaw so he can improve? (or do you say unrealistically positive things so he feels good about his song and doesn't give up?)
If so, how do you reconcile the duplicity of offering severe criticism of an expert's superior work when you are offering praise for something that is clearly inferior?
What is the functional divide between the dream and reality?
I think it is age old question of what do you say when the significant other (usually, and very sexist I know, the woman) asks “does my behind look big in this?”
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I think it is age old question of what do you say when the significant other (usually, and very sexist I know, the woman) asks “does my behind look big in this?”
one difference is that if you're honest about somebody's song, it doesn't increase the likelihood that you'll remain celibate for the next two months....
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