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I'd like to thank those who gave constructive criticism on this post. I accept it well, and have deleted my comments.
Moderator - please delete this thread.
As far as the comments made about my motives - I can assure you the assumed motivation is completely incorrect. Please don't assume.
Last edited by Joe V; 02/02/13 10:17 AM.
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I see no positive purpose on attaching anyone's name to the discussion you seem to be having -- I would go ahead and delete what you wrote and start over differently. If you want to discuss the interface, that is fine -- but don't bring up "personal" stuff just to get attention. I didn't bother reading what you wrote very far.
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Ditto to what Kemmrich said so well.
--Mac
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Quote:
Ditto to what Kemmrich said so well.
Double ditto. Some things are better left unsaid.
Don S.
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"In part, the very appearance of this older-style interface makes it unfamiliar and therefore unappealing to younger users, and may be a barrier to their trying out of and adoption of the program"
This discusssion about the biab GUI has come up time and time again and most of the users here want to see no change to it.
1 If you think about it a great deal of the biab GUI has to be taken up with the input of chords approx 3/4 of the open page, so you cant change that.
2 As regards biab getting younger users I used to be enthusiastic about this too but don't really care any more.
I can't speak for PG music these are entirely my views only.
PG music has a clientelle of generally older people like myself in 50's and have that niche in the market sewen up, so why should they change a winning formula just to get young users on board, if they come aboard on thier own accord well and good but I can't see PG music doing a big change like the biab GUI just to convince them.
And after all a lot of young people have very little money to spend on software such as over $400 as a first time buyer of biab ultra pak.
Musiclover
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Win10Pro,i9,64GB,2TBSSD+20TBHDDs,1080TI,BIAB'24,Scarlett18i8,Montage7,Fusion 8HD,QS8,Integra7,XV5080,QSR,SC-8850,SPLAT,FL21&others,Komp.14,IK suite&others, just a guitar player-AXE FX III &FM9T, FishmanTP, MIDIGuitar2, GK2/3'sw/GI20
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Probably unnecessary to "PERSONALIZE "SCOTT" IN YOUR POST. The GUI has been discussed along the way by many but I must say (even as a 79yrold), that the array of most of these necessary guide "icons" )displayed as they include easily discernable links (paths) that are easily one-click away) from my trembling fingers... are remarkably thought-out and comprehended by all...with a little time and energy. Simply, I like the current approach by PG, and using it our of the box as I do, the opportunities to garner room-wide recognition with its abundance of hot real "clips" from BIAB..with the abilities to reconform it a little bit or alot, is quite effective, for those of us who have upgraded thru the years (or it "centuries")! And, in short, bury me and "my boy BIAB", in a box, in the FINAL box!    
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I agree, not the best idea to hash old post up. Still it would be valid to have this conversation from strickly your views. Me personally i wish that the program was as modern looking as say Sonar or Reaper, but that said i do not want that at the expense of slowing the process down in development. I want to see the very few things that are most reqiested, and actually just one would be great. Fix the darned VSTi timing issue. that would make me happy as a clam.
As far as Scott goes these are really his issues to hash out, not mine. Peter was justified to speak up, and I thought he did so in a very respectuful manner, and the response was respectful. Thoese are THEIR views, and not mine to judge really.
I do know from conversation in the past that Scott wants the same issue as i raised above fixed, and many others do.
Regarding the younger usership, in my opinion there are two factors here. 1. this entire program does not really lend itself to dub step, hiphop, and the like, and i doubt it will (please don't) but for those younger users who make folk, rock, country, jazz, and other musics that BiaB/RB leans on, that skip PG because of interface, well that is there youthful, and maybe slightly narrow minded approach. They if they are really looking for the best tools may come back when they can't find what they want else where.
As far as the pretty girls at the party, they in my opinion are mostly shallow at times, it is the heart and mind of a good woman that makes for a long term relationship. That is what i find in BiaB/RB that keeps me here it allows me to express myself in ways i could not, or at least not nearly as easily with other gals .. er i mean software.
Last edited by Robh; 02/02/13 12:57 PM.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
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Hi Robh, I for one would like to see PGMusic expand into "dub step, hiphop and the like". The more consumers that buy the product the more money PGMusic will make. I remember a short time ago people were complaining that there was not enough good country and bluegrass styles! Look what happened! A ton of good country and bluegrass styles. And who knows maybe some of those hiphop people may turn into great jazz artist; don’t forget about the educational side of PGMusic’s software! Or maybe some of us can learn from their styles and incorporate them into ours! Now about pretty girls being shallow. That’s ok as long it is the next morning 
My wife had her driving test today.
She got 8 out of 10.
The other 2 jumped out of the way!
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Might as well add my vote to keep the GUI as is. I would much rather have more features ie: more than 4 chords to the bar, etc., than changes to the look of BIAB Later, Ray
Asus Q500A i7 Win 10 64 bit 8GB ram 750 HD 15.5" touch screen, BIAB 2017, Casio PX 5s, Xw P1, Center Point Stereo SS V3 and EWI 4000s.
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Quote:
Might as well add my vote to keep the GUI as is. I would much rather have more features ie:
more than 4 chords to the bar, etc., than changes to the look of BIAB Later, Ray
There is no reason why you couldn't have both.
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One reason I can think of right away is cost to development resources on something that is really only eye candy...
I can't figure out why some people insist that the design of this product must be some kind of democratic process. It isn't.
Those wanting a different product are free to try their hand at writing their own offering, aren't they?
--Mac
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Journeyman
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Quote:
I can't figure out why some people insist that the design of this product must be some kind of democratic process. It isn't.
1. PGMusic maintains five different "wishlist" Forums, which seems to mean they are open to suggestions.
2. If the programs were easier to use, you wouldn't have accumulated 35K posts.
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Quote:
One reason I can think of right away is cost to development resources on something that is really only eye candy...
IMHO - simplification, and reducing the number of clicks to perform sophisticated tasks and use case scenarios is much more than eye candy; productivity gains and ease of use help existing customers too
Quote:
I can't figure out why some people insist that the design of this product must be some kind of democratic process. It isn't.
Nobody said it was - there might just be people out there that love the company so much they want to see it flourish, and its products to become even better than they already are
; )
Quote:
Those wanting a different product are free to try their hand at writing their own
offering, aren't they?
I've always said to people "if it's so easy - go ahead and do it"...but should a person that buys and uses a TV be prevented from requesting their cable provider to make an 'ease of use' enhancement to the on-screen menu options ? Well, I would think it unreasonable of the cable company to say "if you want a different on screen menu - you're free to write your own" (actually - I'm sure that would be illegal for some reason or other, especially if you went to the trouble).
So - this is my last post on the BB/RB/RT GUI - just my $2.22 since I really was not involved in previous conversation threads.
I get it - you guys are generally happy with the existing GUI, and would like it to stay that way. Yes, I get it. Thanks for your comments ; )
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On the flip side ..
I've directed quite a bit of development resources on eye candy for a given website or software.
I've also seen the difference in ROI.
Sometimes it's quite worth it.
A program like this is used repeatedly. I still get a certain amount of 'ahh' when I open a modern VST with nice graphics. Makes the experience more enjoyable.
UI/UX
It can make a difference to some.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Quote:
Quote:
I can't figure out why some people insist that the design of this product must be some kind of democratic process. It isn't.
1. PGMusic maintains five different "wishlist" Forums, which seems to mean they are open to suggestions.
So post those suggestions on the Wishlist forum, which as you point out is already provided.
As we've seen in the past, some of our Wishes get honored, others may get honored in future, some may not get honored at all.
I think there is a big difference between Wishlist and long diatribes on other forums that campaign typically one specific issue. And I've personally witnessed many of those posts and complaints about the BB GUI issue get mean, demeaning of pgmusic developers and even resort to the personal attack or demonizations of other human beings that are just uncalled for. Some folks apparently never learned about catching flies with honey and not vinegar.
Quote:
2. If the programs were easier to use, you wouldn't have accumulated 35K posts.
If Band in a Box were real easy to use, it likely wouldn't get used for long as it would not be able to do the things it does. Other autoaccompaniment programs have come and gone, precisely for that reason alone. But some of 'em had prettier looking screens. Jammer certainly did not last long here. Those listening to our creations only hear the music, they can't see the gui of the software used to create that music, eh?
--Mac
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Quote:
Quote:
One reason I can think of right away is cost to development resources on something that is really only eye candy...
IMHO - simplification, and reducing the number of clicks to perform sophisticated tasks and use case scenarios is much more than eye candy; productivity gains and ease of use help existing customers too
I totally agree with you, Joe. For example, simply reorganizing / regrouping the actual menus in a more logical way (using submenus, for example) or (even better) allowing custom organization of menus, would greatly improve the actual GUI, the workflow and the productivity for many users, and probably wouldn't imply too much development resources. There are many other excellent ideas about possible GUI improvements on a recent thread started by Peter Gannon.
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Have to agree with the "redesign" suggestion.
Eye candy is sweet!
I always appreciate programs that have optional User Interfaces or skins as sometimes the stock ones interfere with the functionality, ie. are hard to read or have a cluttered look.
This means that the user can stick with the original if it suits them.
Not being a programmer I have no idea how difficult it is to write the code to accomplish this but,know from personal experience, I was drawn to BIAB in spite of the "retro" interface.
The features are amazing, the interface, not so much.
I think the reason most of the older users, of which I am one, age wise at least, don't want the interface to change is that we're afraid we will have to relearn the program.
An example of poorly implemented change is judged by the reaction to Windows 8.
Microsoft's failure to offer some continuity and familiarity along with the updated interface has baffled and angered many who have tried to use it.
I'm sure if PG does decide to update their interface, they will do it the right way.
Carkins
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Sorry, Mac. Didn't mean to rile you. I will be most careful from here on. (No need to remind us that you were not riled.... we know.)
But just so you know, I never engage in "long diatribes." my diatribes are short and pointed... and I am pretty satisfied with the GUI...
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I like my diatribes with chocolate sprinkles!
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
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