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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2011
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With BIAB including so many great features, it's sometimes difficult to determine whether a specific, particular capability is included. I'm interested in having the accompinament play along according to the tempo that I'm playing on the keyboard, and even stop to wait when I make my inevitable mistakes - similar to what is being demonstrated here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n27pR-Bz3eQ in "Learn" mode. The software in the video is called "Home Concert Extreme". IF BIAB includes this type of capability, could someone guide me to where I can find it? If it does not, I'd appreciate any comments, positive or negative on Home Concert Extreme - including whether there are other software applications which do the same thing. Thanks!
Kawai VPC1 MIDI Controller; Asus A53E Laptop running Windows 7 - 64 bit; BIAB 2017 UltraPlusPak (upgraded from 2014 EverythingPak), running from Laptop's Hard Drive.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2000
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Band in a Box does not do that.
**I think it is a very bad idea. Practicing is the ar and science of reinforcing that which we are supposed to do. Practicing is the repetition of the correct. Matter of fact, the French for "practice" is "repetition". Using a software that stops and starts with our mistakes will only serve to reinforce the mistakes.
And, it is ultimately extremely important to the art of making music to count at all times for yourself, no matter if accompanied or not, which is part and parcel of performance.
I would advise any serious student to avoid using a software like that.
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 273
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OP
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Quote:
Band in a Box does not do that.
**I think it is a very bad idea. Practicing is the ar and science of reinforcing that which we are supposed to do. Practicing is the repetition of the correct. Matter of fact, the French for "practice" is "repetition". Using a software that stops and starts with our mistakes will only serve to reinforce the mistakes.
And, it is ultimately extremely important to the art of making music to count at all times for yourself, no matter if accompanied or not, which is part and parcel of performance.
I would advise any serious student to avoid using a software like that.
--Mac
OK, Thanks Mac!
Kawai VPC1 MIDI Controller; Asus A53E Laptop running Windows 7 - 64 bit; BIAB 2017 UltraPlusPak (upgraded from 2014 EverythingPak), running from Laptop's Hard Drive.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 392
Journeyman
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Journeyman
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Quote:
Band in a Box does not do that.
**I think it is a very bad idea. Practicing is the ar and science of reinforcing that which we are supposed to do. Practicing is the repetition of the correct. Matter of fact, the French for "practice" is "repetition". Using a software that stops and starts with our mistakes will only serve to reinforce the mistakes.
And, it is ultimately extremely important to the art of making music to count at all times for yourself, no matter if accompanied or not, which is part and parcel of performance.
I would advise any serious student to avoid using a software like that.
--Mac
+1. It is SO boring to do...but I've seen (and read about) ULTRA-advanced guitarists play new lines SO slowly they sound like beginners but eventually working up to warp speed...like Tommy Emmanuel...and never play a clam. But that's only because they forced themselves to play at 1/4 tempo...or even slower until they played it PERFECTLY maybe 50 times...then and only then do they bump up the speed...a little.
It's what I call the "finger bleed method" and I think all top players use it...MAYBE excluding true prodigies.
Of course, for slugs like me...I could practice Tommy's Classical Gas...and no other song for the rest of my life my life and never get it...But that puts me in a HUGE majority of players on the planet.
(-:
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jun 2012
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I didn't think it was that bad of an idea. If it stops on a mistake, it encourages the student to go back and practice to resolve that issue and then learn to keep playing that particular part until it is accomplished without making the same error.
I didn't think it taught mistakes, but rather, taught how to quickly identify and resolve mistakes so that they were avoided in future.
It's certainly not what my understanding of Band In A Box does, its a completely separate concept.
It probably has its place within the music tuition industry.
Thanks for bringing it to the forum.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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you could get a USB footswitch and program it to send a spacebar character, which toggles the song between stop and start. If you mess up and need top stop for a second, step on the switch... when you're ready to continue, step on it again and off you go! thread with more info: http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/showflat.p...true#Post390155
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2007
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I'm a little surprised at Mac's response as it takes a somewhat narrow view of the utility of such a capability. BIAB serves, among many other things, as an excellent and highly sophisticated metronome, but for performance it would be very useful to have an intelligent accompanist. As far as I know there is nothing commercially available, but software responsive to the artist does exist in the Media Lab at MIT. I've seen it working as a virtual piano accompanist to a violin soloist. In the demonstration it followed tempo changes and pauses.
This was many years ago. It might be worth contacting the Media Lab to find out what happened to the project. There might be a small technology company somewhere in Massachusetts with an unusual software package available . . .
Richard
Edited to add: I wrote my reply before I noticed the link to the video, which I haven't watched yet. If HCE looks like it will do what you want at a reasonable price, I'd say go for it.
Last edited by Ryszard; 02/04/13 08:46 PM.
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2011
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Quote:
.....Edited to add: I wrote my reply before I noticed the link to the video, which I haven't watched yet. If HCE looks like it will do what you want at a reasonable price, I'd say go for it.
Unfortunately, it appears that Home Concert Extreme is somehow not compatible with MIDI files from BIAB. I sent a sample Midi File from the "BB Extras" folder to someone who has HCX, and he tried playing it (using his iPad version, since he was having problems with his laptop), and HCX wouldn't recognize the file. He said that I would need to add some kind of specific "markers" to the MIDI file to somehow separate the right and left hand parts, and I don't know how to do that.
In addition, I'm having problems converting files created by the BIAB Audio Chord Extractor to MIDI. I simply can't get BIAB to create a MIDI file from these extractions. I was hoping to convert some audio recordings to MIDI files that would be compatible with HCX in this way, but no dice so far.
For $99, HCX would have been a great deal IMO - had it worked with the files I want to use.
Kawai VPC1 MIDI Controller; Asus A53E Laptop running Windows 7 - 64 bit; BIAB 2017 UltraPlusPak (upgraded from 2014 EverythingPak), running from Laptop's Hard Drive.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2003
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I’m with Mac on this one.
I record my parts with BiaB parts then go back and listen. If I made a mistake I practice that measure(s) over until I get it then go back and record again.
I tell my students that when playing your lesson for me if you make a mistake keep going. If you make a mistake and stop that’s two mistakes and if you make a mistake, stop, then go back that is three mistakes.
I also tell them to start practicing new material slow, then speed up. But in both cases you must keep a steady beat. Also repeat those measure(s) you have problems with then play the lesson from the top. This is how I still practice today.
IMHO you will play like you practice so if stopping becomes a habit you will continue to do it. Also if you can’t keep a steady beat you’re not a musician IMHO.
Just my thoughts and methods.
Back in my day the only time we started panic buying was when the bartender shouted "last call"!
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Feb 2007
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Expert
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Expert
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Here is a another shorter video that shows the Learning, Jam and Performance modes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7E9Uv170ZmU It looks like only the "learning mode" stops if you get off track to make sure you get it right -- the jam mode keeps plowing on through and the performance mode follows you! I see nothing wrong with this type of software. Does it lead to bad habits? It might or it might not -- most likely depends on the user. Looks like it is around $40 for the iPad version ( https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/home-concert-xtreme/id443017184?mt=8 ), but you also need a iPad to midi keyboard adapter ( http://www.zenph.com/zenph-software/ipad ) -- if the iPad is your weapon of choice. A PC or MAC version looks to be around $99.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Want to eliminate a mistake entirely in the most efficient manner possible?
The good old tried and true method works best.
If you make a mistake, any mistake, while practicing, stop forging ahead and go back to either the beginning of the piece or at least to the beginning of the phrase preceeding the area where you made the mistake and play through from there.
If the mistake generates itself again in that same area, stop, slow down the Tempo for that area and "woodshed" just that particular area. When doing this, playing it slowly and evenly will often allow the musician to pinpoint the particular foible that is generating the mistake. For example, a cross-fingering situation if the instrument is a keyboard, or perhaps a counting/timing issue within the interpretation of the written phrase, or a simpler matter of wrong note selection.
That is truly the most efficient (which also means fastest) way I have found to program the brain, hands and the rest of the body to be able to perform any piece of music.
Do note that the person in the first demo video given is quite the accomplished pianist, or at the least, already KNOWS the piece used in the demo (which isn't all that difficult to begin with).
If, when practicing, you find yourself making the same mistake repeatedly at the same point in the piece, forging on without addressing that mistake and doing whatever it takes to eliminate same will only reinforce the mind and muscle memory towards making that mistake again. This is counterproductive.
"We don't need no stinking crutches."
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Feb 2007
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Quote:
...If you make a mistake, any mistake, while practicing, stop forging ahead and go back to either the beginning of the piece or at least to the beginning of the phrase preceeding the area where you made the mistake and play through from there. ...
Mac: 100% true -- and it certainly seems like the learning mode of the software in question helps you do exactly that (of course, I only watched the short video, so I might be mistaken).
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2000
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I would have designed the Learning Mode to do a bit more than what I saw it doing on the video demo.
It stops when you make a mistake, but it doesn't go back to the beginning of a previous phrase and pick it up from there.
And then I'd want a toggle that would also go back to the top of the piece when any mistake is detected.
Because that is the art and science of woodshedding AFIAC.
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jan 2007
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Quote:
ULTRA-advanced guitarists play new lines SO slowly they sound like beginners but eventually working up to warp speed...like Tommy Emmanuel...
It is my firm belief that Tommy (who I have met a few times and is a very nice guy) is an alien from outer space who was dropped into the Outback as a baby.
No human can play like he does. 
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 392
Journeyman
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Journeyman
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Quote:
Quote:
ULTRA-advanced guitarists play new lines SO slowly they sound like beginners but eventually working up to warp speed...like Tommy Emmanuel...
It is my firm belief that Tommy (who I have met a few times and is a very nice guy) is an alien from outer space who was dropped into the Outback as a baby.
No human can play like he does.
I was lucky enough to see him play here a few months ago...from row 5!
He asked if there were any guitar players in the audience (about 500 folks) and AT LEAST 100 hands came up!!!
I don't think I heard him play a clam all night. So if HE says to learn lines VERY SLOWLY until you can do it perfectly a LOT of times and then pick up the tempo incrementally (which is what he says) then THAT is the way to go.
(-:
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 273
Apprentice
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OP
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Quote:
...Unfortunately, it appears that Home Concert Extreme is somehow not compatible with MIDI files from BIAB. I sent a sample Midi File from the "BB Extras" folder to someone who has HCX, and he tried playing it (using his iPad version, since he was having problems with his laptop), and HCX wouldn't recognize the file...
An update FWIW: After further testing, it appears that the PC version of HCX (as opposed to the iPad version) IS compatible with MIDI files generated by BIAB.
Just an FYI.
Kawai VPC1 MIDI Controller; Asus A53E Laptop running Windows 7 - 64 bit; BIAB 2017 UltraPlusPak (upgraded from 2014 EverythingPak), running from Laptop's Hard Drive.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I'm trying to learn a finger tanglin' honky tonk/rag song at the moment. The final tempo will (hopefully) be 210 bpm, and with up to 12 notes per bar, it's hard work.
I recorded the backing track to BIAB and started quite slowly - about 100-120 bpm; when I can play it right through 3 times without mistakes, I increase the tempo by 10 bpm and start again.
Works for me.
Cheers,
Keith
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