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How about this used Selmer that might still be available locally here in Colorado Springs: http://cosprings.craigslist.org/msg/3621343677.htmlEdited - put in wrong link to begin with.
Last edited by rockstar_not; 03/20/13 09:09 AM.
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For Mac and others,
I'm also contacting Kurt at Rondo Music to see if there is an SX/Agile equivalent brand in the saxophone world. He doesn't have much of anything in stock right now.
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Sometimes a private teacher will recommend that it is time for a better instrument because the teacher has a particular sale deal in mind. Worth asking, Scott. And don't accept first price quote, bargain, if such turns out to be the case.
--Mac
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Quote:
So, Notes - this model would be a good instrument to invest in? http://www.philbarone.com/store/saxophon...e-brass-classic
That's the least expensive of the MacSax and Barone models that I can find - and frankly not that much more than what I am finding used that are supposedly worthy of purchase.
<...>
-Scott
I've never played a Barone, but they have a great reputation on the Sax On The Web forum. When I bought my MacSax it was a tossup between Barone and Mac, and I chose the Mac because he agreed to put two coats of silver colored nickel on it and still guarantee that it would play in tune.
The only thing I would think about is the bare brass. I know they are in style these days, but brass corrodes without protection. In some people's hands (like mine) and in some climates they corrode faster than others and develop a green patina. The green itself isn't bad but the blisters can make it look terrible.
My old H.Couf sax, which I dearly loved, turned into this, because in the state of Florida, nobody re-lacquers saxophones anymore - environmental reasons. Most states have done the same, and to get it relacquered I would have had to send it off to Indiana for 3 to 4 months. I sold the horn to a repairman who sent me pictures of it restored and it looks good again.
There is a big debate about relacquering horns, some think it ruins the tone, others do not. I've always been in the relacquer camp. Stan Getz had some of the most beautiful sax tone ever, and he played the same Mark VI for decades, and it always looked flawless. I personally believe it is impossible to keep the original lacquer on a horn that long. I used to have my horns relacquered every 4 years and it never made a difference to my ears. I did have a great sax tech though, and I think that is the clue (unfortunately he's up in the sky, repairing horns for Getz and Coltrane now).
Between the Couf and the Mac I bought a Grassi. Mainly because it was gold plated and I figured it would be better than bare brass. Unfortunately in about 10 years the gold flaked off and it started corroding. Thus the nickel plated MacSax.
Many years ago I traded a collection of my BiaB styles for a late 1800 alto sax. It was nickel plated and other than a few minor pits, it looked very good. So before I bought my Mac, I called Anderson Plating (they specialize in musical instruments) and asked them what was the most durable finish on a sax (I have a music dealers licence for my software, so they will talk to me). They said regular silver nickel. The price they quoted to replate my Grassi with silver if I stripped it down myself, plus the cost of having a tech repad and realign the horn was about the same price as I paid for the Mac. So now I use the Grassi in my weekly outdoors gig at a salt water marina (it's the birthplace of the Navy SEALS and all the stuff on the wall was left by SEALS during their annual muster/party). You can't see the corrosion because it is mostly on the side of the horn that faces me and under my fingers. But if you could see it close up, you would see it starting all over the rest of the horn.
I don't have a picture of it (except in my avatar and on the stand on my old promo picture here http://www.nortonmusic.com/cats/photo_1.html it's big so I won't link it - also in the picture is my old Couf when it was still legal to relacquer it) but my old King alto was silver plated and still looks decent. I also like the high pitched overtones silver produces when it vibrates.
So I caution you from saving a bit of money to get bare brass.
I do know everything is expensive, and even old top of the line brand saxes aren't the deal they were when I was young. If you do go used, get an independent evaluation from a sax tech.
Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton  Norton Music
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Quote:
How about this used Selmer that might still be available locally here in Colorado Springs: http://cosprings.craigslist.org/msg/3621343677.html
Edited - put in wrong link to begin with.
Looks pretty good. The USA Selmers are not as good as the French ones, and are definitely high end student horns. From what I've read I think they are pretty equivalent to the Mac and Barone horns - but I have no first hand experience with them.
I wouldn't buy one off Craigslist without having someone look at it.
I was loaned a Selmer/Bundy once when my Couf was getting relacquered, and it was too thin and light for my tastes, gave it a weak tone. But since the sax tech loaned it to me while he overhauled my Couf, I'm not complaining.
Quote:
For Mac and others,
I'm also contacting Kurt at Rondo Music to see if there is an SX/Agile equivalent brand in the saxophone world. He doesn't have much of anything in stock right now.
I think the Mac and Baronne saxes are the equivalent. They are made in Taiwan and sold directly from the importer, no distributor(s) in the middle to take a cut.
Saxes are by the nature of the beast, more expensive than guitars. Brass is more expensive than wood and I think there are about 800 separate parts in a saxophone. Plus they are more difficult to maintain, unlike a guitar, most people can't do a lot themselves. On the other hand, reeds are less expensive than strings.
Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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I have been following this thread a bit and can maybe add something..
I only started playing about 5 years ago and first bought a Chateau Tenor (made by Tenon Industrial in Taiwan.) I realised after one week that the plastic mouthpiece is a key problem and bought a bakelite Yamaha one, (still using it today...).
(I crave a metal one but its quite pricey over here)
The comment about the reed is also important, The guy who coached me gave me a 2 1/2 but it was proving to be too hard for me, I quickly moved to a 1 1/2. That made the world of difference for me as a beginner.
After about 18 months I outgrew the Chateau as I found that I had to put more pressure on for the valves to seal properly. You then start working to battle the machine instead of making music (same as a bad guitar, had one of those at one time as well!)
I started looking around for better quality but still affordable and bought a Yanagisawa
(made in Japan) in the end (a from myself to myself 50th birthday present). (6 times the price of the Chateu though) A beautiful instrument, good value for money. It seals with very light fingers and is a dream to play.
I watch the reed and replace it as soon as I detect it failing ...(if you buy a box the unit price really comes down a lot)
Here in South Africa the Selmers are just too pricey given the duties, import taxes the government adds.
Just my story .....
I'm doing allright for Country Trash ....
I used to care, but things have changed (Bob Dylan)
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Yanagisawa Tenor Sax
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About raw brass, Notes mentioned that some people have body chemistry that will corrode brass. Be aware also that some people are allergic to raw brass, or develop an allergy after touching it for awhile. I know several trumpet players whose lips were affected when the plating gradually wore off their favorite mouthpieces. Just something to keep in mind if you go that route.
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CountryTrash mentioned reeds.
The right strength reed is very important, and for the same player the reed strength will vary from mouthpiece to mouthpiece. In general, larger tip openings require softer reeds. Larger tip openings and chambers also generally produce a darker sound.
Reeds vary in quality in the same box. Some just play better and some don't play well at all. Hold them up in front of a light and look at the evenness of grain and translucency. After a while, you will see what works best for you.
Abrasive reed rushes and a reed clipper can help rescue some reeds, others are hopeless. I also find it best to put 4 reeds into rotation so they have 3 days to dry before being played again. It makes them last longer. I have a plastic reed saver case that accommodates this.
There are a lot of variables in mouthpiece design, but unfortunately they are a bit expensive so trying out the multitudes of different variations is out of the reach of most. It's like guitar pickups in that it is a major tone producer.
As a student, a middle-of-the-road hard rubber mouthpiece like an Otto Link #6 is a good start. Especially if he/she is in school band.
Insights and incites by Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
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OK Model number is Jupiter JTS-789
S/N: N10251
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OK Model number is Jupiter JTS-789 looks like a good choice. Also its possible to get chinese metal mouthpieces on ebay cheap
Win 11 64, Asus Rog Strix z390 mobo, 64 gig RAM, 8700k
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Quote:
OK Model number is Jupiter JTS-789 looks like a good choice. Also its possible to get chinese metal mouthpieces on ebay cheap
The Jupiter I listed above is the model that the teacher thinks is pretty crummy - he's tried it out with a few of his mouthpieces.
Here's his assessment: "It is inconsistent in tonal quality from the top to bottom of range as well as intonation, it then creates problems for a young sax player trying to compensate."
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I would go by your teach then, he has seen it. As far as I am aware all models of sax are a tuning compromise, my King certainly is. As far as tonal 'inconsistency, well I haven't heard that before. Across the register of a sax (like all instruemnts) there is a vast tonal difference we come to be accustomed to that and think of the sax in this way. It's hard to tell what he means without hearing it. There are many non 'name' saxes available in music shops cheaper than the Jupiter - which is a mini 'name' amongst student saxes. I have bought quite a few for people, they are frequently rebranded chinese. They blow good, but resale wise, no one has heard of them so prices are down. In the UK many want a Yamaha, so the resale value is good. I bought a Yamaha (alto) for myself, I hated it, it was bright and zingy, I took it straight back. Some people like the sound and that's great for them. If a sax is old and dirty it can add to the Kudos of the sax player, like a dirty Strat, but buyer beware.. pads and their seating. In the end its about money,ears and condition, plus lots of sales hype 
Win 11 64, Asus Rog Strix z390 mobo, 64 gig RAM, 8700k
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As ZeroZero pointed out, a lot is a matter of taste, and although the model you mentioned has a decent reputation, there are always inconsistencies between different individual horns in the same run. As I said, when I tried out 3 with close serial numbers, the intonation signature of the three were similar but different in severity.
The Yamahas have good resale value, and a good reputation with repair people, but again, the tone is a matter of taste. I prefer a darker tone myself, which is why I didn't keep my Mark VII very long and adored my old H.Couf.
I would suspect that for a student, ease of playing and better than average intonation would be good attributes.
I also would avoid very cheap horns. I don't teach anymore, but in the past I have a few private students. One girl bought a cheap soprano sax, because she adored Kenny G. but had a difficult time playing it.
Smaller saxes are more difficult to play anyway, especially for a student, because little changes in the lip make for a bigger change in the intonation. But she could not hit a high E on the sax. I tried it and the high E was a challenge for me to hit as well. I had a Meyer classical mouthpiece at the time and I tried it, with no improvement. I had her take it back.
So if a sax tech cannot get the Jupiter in regulation (and I suggest the school look into that), it might be time for a decent student horn.
The Yamahas are bright sounding, but you can darken that with a large tip opening/chamber mouthpiece if you desire, but they have good resale value so when it's time to trade up to something better, you will get a better trade in.
There are experts on Sax On The Web forum that know a lot more about that than myself, including a lot of people who repair/overhaul saxes. Like any forum, there are a lot of people who are happy to help a newbie, especially someone who is bringing a new young sax player into the fold.
Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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