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I have used BiaB to print lead sheets for years. Quick and clean. Very happy.
Recently I was asked to create SATB sheet music for the church choir. I couldn't get BiaB to do it. I needed control over spacing and layout that BiaB just doesn't offer. So I am looking at some notation programs. Noteworthy look like it will do the job nicely, and the price is certainly right.
Do any of y'all have experience with noteworthy? Do you think I should go with it or not? I am more concerned with the time-investment of learning a new program. Please share your experience.
OR...is it possible and BiaB and RealBand have notation capabilities I do not know about?
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Hi Flatfoot, BIAB's primary role is not music notation. Because of this, I'd imagine that writing in multi-part harmony would be an issue. I use an old version of Encore when I need to notate music beyond BIAB's capabilities. Below are a couple of links to freeware music notation programs that I have just found. I no neither of these programs and can't tell you how difficult or easy they are to use. MuseScore has some on-site screenshots and these look good. LilyPond does not have screenshots and so I can't really make any comment about it. MUSESCOREhttp://musescore.org/en/downloadLILYPONDhttp://lilypond.org/webRegards, Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2026
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G'day Flatfoot, been a user of NWC (Noteworthy Composer) for years now. The UI is very easy to learn and very fast. That said, it isn't a perfect product, but it does all that I really need. I've been using it to do scores for my church band for years. They have a very helpful and polite user forum too, much like this one just not as busy. FWIW the notation capabilities of NWC blow BIAB into the weeds, but that's reasonable, BIAB is primarily an accompaniment product not a notation product. If you want to know any specifics I'd be glad to try and help, but if you visit the NWC forum ( http://my.noteworthysoftware.com/ ) you'll probably get faster results. You can download an eval. from http://www.noteworthysoftware.com/ - click the "Try It" link.
Last edited by Lawrie; 04/16/09 11:14 PM.
--=-- My credo: If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing - just ask my missus, she'll tell ya  --=--You're only paranoid if you're wrong!
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I am not sure if this is also nice to use, but Finale also have some nicely priced notation software. https://www.finalemusic.com/
I'll be back...
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Thanks Lawrie!
I have downloaded Noteworthy, Finale, Lilypond and several other demo programs. I am testing then out. Noteworthy looks the best so far. Your feedback is helping me to make up my mind.
One thing I want to do is fix a note. I want to be able to click on a note and get a menu that allows me to change the note from C to C#, or from an eighth to a quarter. Does Noteworthy allow that?
Last edited by flatfoot; 04/17/09 05:37 AM.
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Hi, Flatfoot -
I too have been a Noteworthy Composer user for years. It will do most of what you need to do. Folks on the NWC forum are happy to help.
Regarding the two things you mentioned. To create a C# initially, just click the little sharp (#) button, or hit the (I think it's the number "9" - I can't remember off the top of my head, just that 7-8-9 control the natural, flat, and sharp keys), then hit ENTER on the staff where you want the C#. If you already have a C, just highlight the C and then hit the "#" button and it will become a C#.
To change an eighth note to a quarter note, just highlight the note and click on the quarter note button (or just press the "3" key). Noteworthy lets you do just about everything from the keyboard using shortcuts, and is therefore very fast at entering scores.
Hope that helped. Again, lots of help on the NWC forum and they are friendly there, much like on this forum.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 12TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 12TB SATA BB2026/UMC204HD&404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/Notion/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com (under rehosting/construction)
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>>>Hope that helped...>>>>
Yup I get it. I saw a list of keyboard shortcuts somewhere. I'll print it out.
Thank you...
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G'day Flatfoot, Quote:
One thing I want to do is fix a note. I want to be able to click on a note and get a menu that allows me to change the note from C to C#, or from an eighth to a quarter. Does Noteworthy allow that?
As John has already indicated it's easy enough, but best handled without the mouse. You don't actually click the note, but drag across it to select (highlight) it - easier to <Shift-Arrow> over it from the keyboard, then press <9>, or click the # button. To go from eighth to quarter select the same way as above and press:
- 1=whole
- 2=half
- 3=quarter
- 4=eighth
- 5=sixteenth
- 6=thirtysecond
- 7=natural
- 8=flat
- 9=sharp
Navigation round the score is easy too:
<Left or Right Arrow> shift an "object" (note, rest, text entry, barline, dynamic etc..)
<Ctrl-Left or Right Arrow> go to the start of the next (or previous) bar
<Shift-Left or Right Arrow> Select (highlight) next or previous object*
<Ctrl-Shift-Left or Right Arrow> Select (highlight) all objects from the current position to the beginning of the next or previous bar*
* Repeated presses adds to the selection - these also work with the mouse instead of the arrow, you just drag over the objects to be selected - quick, easy and intuitive.
I've lost count of the number of notation packages I've "auditioned" and while NWC doesn't have some features I'd like to have available the user interface is soooo much better than everything else I've looked at that it became the deal breaker for every other product. Especially Finale and Sibelius - those two have the name, and some great features, but their UI really sucks and they don't have anywhere near the flexibility.
Which brings me to one other point. NWC is, I think, the only one that doesn't force you to define the number of staves (instruments) before you can start and force the bar structure (from the time sig.) while entering notes - I find these two 'features" of other products highly counter-productive - particularly if I'm in an experimental mode. You can easily fix the barline positions AFTER you've played around and got the rhythm right - just perform a barline audit. As for adding staves - forget the crap the others want you to go through - just press <Ctrl-A> and voila - a new staff for a new instrument - don't really want the new staff? OK, make it the current one and press <Ctrl-D>.
Oh yeah, made some mistakes? User definable level of undo's (<Ctrl-Z> of course) - I have 64 levels of undo set - maximum is 100. Didn't mean to undo? <Ctrl-Y> is redo with the same number of levels as undo.
And then there's user tools - man these are great! Create your own tools! NWC doesn't do something you would like natively? - write a user tool. That's if one hasn't already been created for the job. Can't write code - that's fine, doesn't stop you from using tools others have created.
It's a good product, for the price I reckon it's a great product. The demo is slightly feature limited and I can't remember what those limitations are but they won't prevent you from getting a good feel for it.
Last edited by Lawrie; 04/17/09 05:41 PM.
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Wow, Lawrie and John, thanks for the tips! It looks Noteworthy is the way to go. If you to are so enthusiastic, it must be good.
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If you want to extend the appearance capabilities of NWC check out the additional system fonts available. http://nwc-scriptorium.org/helpful.html#FontsIf you want to view the alternative appearances from the suites at the start of this section click the "zoundz!" link... You'll see some links to the same sample page in various fonts...
--=-- My credo: If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing - just ask my missus, she'll tell ya --=--You're only paranoid if you're wrong!
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I personally would rather recommend one of the Finale products, most publishers will accept notation in Finale whereas I am not too sure about Noteworthy.
I already have Finale 2006 full version, but can recommend their much cheaper Print Music, it has most of the important bits that the full version has.
As a trial I downloaded the Noteworthy evaluation version, which I can honestly say is quite good, it does do a lot that Finale Print music can do, but I do have a few minor points against it.
Note entry, although fairly simple is a bit less easier than Finale speedy entry, you have to press the enter key to actually put the note on the staff. I couldn't find a way to make a bar line appear automatically after four beats in 4/4 time, you have to place it manually. Note length can be accessed by the number keys, but they work in reverse order to Finale, the higher the number the smaller the note in its order, from full note, half note, quarter note, one eighth note, etc Finale works the other way round, the lower the number, the smaller the note.
I don't play keyboard well enough to tell how good it is at real time input from a midi controller or ordinary midi keyboard, so can't comment on that aspect, and haven't even looked to see if it exists in Noteworthy yet, as I am happy with my own Finale. However for someone wanting to just use a notation program to produce sheet music for other musicians to play from, Noteworthy isn't that bad if perhaps a little slower to use.
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G'day Nev, I agree that the Noteworthy file format is proprietry, but if your requirement is only to print your own music then this is not really relevant. There is already a user tool to import MusicXML, an export tool for Version 1 files, and I suspect that a version 2 export tool to MusicXML will probably appear. I'd write it myself if I was a decent programmer - user tools are not a big deal. There is also a fully documented text file format that lends itself to programatic manipulation - this will allow a MusicXML export tool to be written very easily. Note entry etc.: With respect, it seems that you are trying to use the mouse to place notes etc. DON'T!!!!! Use the cursor keys to position the entry point and press <Enter> - I have tried Finale and NWC blows it into the weeds for speed if you use the keyboard. (Computer, not MIDI). Automatic barlines are a right, royal PITA if you are trying to experiment. One of the worst features of any notation package I've ever seen! I hate them with a passion! In NWC barlines are added either manually by pressing <Tab> or <*>, or automatic barlines can be added by using the barline audit feature. Easy and fast. The UI is different to any other notation product I've seen so if you are familiar with other products then there is a slightly greater learning curve. However, if it is your first, you'll learn it far faster than you think as it really is very intuitive. Standard Windows copy and paste keys etc. Basically it uses, as far as possible, the standard CUA that Windows itself has used since its inception back in the 80's. Note that the edit window is SCORE oriented, NOT page oriented - the staves go from left to right to infinite (almost  ) They do not wrap in the edit window, they DO wrap correctly in print preview and on the printed page. The real key to using NWC quickly is to lose the mouse - as any Wordperfect user can tell you, the mouse only slows you down! As for MIDI entry, it works quite well. Setup a click track to the right tempo, press the Record icon and play - I use this a lot for homegrown songs in my church. Our music director is fairly proficient on a keyboard and I can get tracks down as he plays very easily - set the split right (the default is pretty good) and you get both hands in the right places (most of the time).
Last edited by Lawrie; 04/18/09 07:45 AM.
--=-- My credo: If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing - just ask my missus, she'll tell ya --=--You're only paranoid if you're wrong!
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>>>...most publishers will accept notation in Finale whereas I am not too sure about Noteworthy...>>>
This is the dilemma I am facing. I like NW for a lot of reasons, not least the price. How significant is the fact that NW is a proprietary format? This might be a deal breaker for some. Should it be for me? Its a lot of money to get compatibility I might not need. At this point I am not dealing with publishers. Is it not true that publishers will accept MIDI files? I do all my writing in MIDI already. I plan to have all the editing done in my MIDI sequencer before bringing it over to NW, or whatever notation program I end up with.
Thanks for all of your great advice so far...
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Quote:
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>>>...most publishers will accept notation in Finale whereas I am not too sure about Noteworthy...>>>
This is the dilemma I am facing. I like NW for a lot of reasons, not least the price. How significant is the fact that NW is a proprietary format? This might be a deal breaker for some. Should it be for me? Its a lot of money to get compatibility I might not need. At this point I am not dealing with publishers. Is it not true that publishers will accept MIDI files? I do all my writing in MIDI already. I plan to have all the editing done in my MIDI sequencer before bringing it over to NW, or whatever notation program I end up with.
Thanks for all of your great advice so far...
Hmm... I guess you need to ask yourself how likely it is that you will need to submit to a publisher. And just how much format matters anyhow, as it is most likely a publisher will re-typeset to suit themselves.
WRT MIDI import, while not perfect, NWC imports OK. But a good MIDI performance will likely not result in good notation - no matter what notation product you use. With a good "humanised" MIDI performance note on and off times are often shifted in time from "perfectly in time". This can result in 32nd and 64th notes and rests that are just plain wrong for the notation even if they are very close to the performance...
IIRC the NWC2 trial does not do MIDI import. If you want to see the results of an import of one of your MIDI's please PM me and we can make arrangements to do some file sharing.
--=-- My credo: If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing - just ask my missus, she'll tell ya --=--You're only paranoid if you're wrong!
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When on a journey, I don't concern myself with imaginary bridges.
Look for the bridge only after it is discovered the valley is really in your way and needs to be crossed.
--Mac
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>>>...IIRC the NWC2 trial does not do MIDI import. If you want to see the results of an import of one of your MIDI's please PM me and we can make arrangements to do some file sharing...>>>
The trial version imports MIDI. It does everything, actually, except it will save 10 times then stop. I am pretty sure by now I am going to buy, thanks largely to the help I received in this thread.
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I bought NW after a lot of experimenting and consideration. Today I just finished a score for a client. Looks like the feature set is about what I need. What NW does automatically looks right for me to. There is a certain level of defaults-versus-custom-options that the creators of each program must work out. It appears that the creators of NW have automated what I don't want to be bothered with while keeping the options I would keep. The learning curve is about what I expected, maybe a little less. Definitely less steep than other feature-rich programs I have tried.
Thanks to all who shared their experience. Your help in making up my mind is much appreciated.
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Hi, Flatfoot - I'm glad it worked out for you. And remember, if you have a question, they have a use forum almost as friendly as this one.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 12TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 12TB SATA BB2026/UMC204HD&404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/Notion/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com (under rehosting/construction)
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G'day Flatfoot,
glad you like it. Would'a responded earlier but I've been away interstate for the last week. As John said, lotsa help on the NWC forum if you need it.
--=-- My credo: If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing - just ask my missus, she'll tell ya --=--You're only paranoid if you're wrong!
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Looks like Noteworthy has a large base of users who are a lot like me, and thats a pretty big factor in its favor. There is whole community that comes with the program. There are many web sites devoted to making the work of Noteworthy available to the public. Among all these users there are bound to be some who run into the same issues that I do. It gives me confidence to know that these people are making their expertise available.
Reminds me of these forums here. I am not one of the big posters, but I check in at least a few times a week. Cant count how many I have read one of the posts here and found something I never thought of before. All of us who make this forum work add immeasurably to the value of BiaB.
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