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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 368
Journeyman
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OP
Journeyman
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 368 |
In two recent issues of Down Beat (December 2011 & June 2013). There are articles on “poly chords”.
Two chords stacked one upon the other, e.g. Cmaj7 plus Dmaj7.
This can be written as Cmaj7/Dmaj7, however not in BB as the slash is used to indicate a desired bass note (e.g. Am7/G).
Of course if one spells out the notes of Cmaj7/ Dmaj7: C, E, G, B, D, F#, A and C# one could use the tertian terms (for the Dmaj7 chord tones): 9, #11, 13, #15. This has however some unlucky consequences in BB, as #11 will alter the G in the C-chord and #15 is not recognized.
Has anyone a suggestion that will work around these two problems?
Please let me hear from you.
Tonnie
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 138
Apprentice
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Apprentice
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 138 |
Hi Tonnie. Interesting question. I've had the same issue making backing tracks for Kurt Rosenwinkel numbers and other modern stuff.
I'm not sure a programme like BIAB, amazing as it is, will ever be able to cope with really wierd note-stacks.
For example, just putting a C triad over a Db triad (a fairly common modern jazz harmony) gives you:
Dbmaj7(#9 b5) (Notes: Db F Ab C E G)
I only have experience with BIAB RT's, but my approach is:
a) listen to what I'm trying to emulate
b) listen to what BIAB does with different options, especially given the chord that comes next.
In the above example, I might end up writing C/Db, or Dbalt, or Db7#9.
Have you found other workarounds? Best - Andy
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 138
Apprentice
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Apprentice
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 138 |
Sorry Tonnie - I meant to comment on your Cmaj7/Dmaj7 example.
The central problem, I think, is that you have a 7th and a major 7th in there (C & C#). No standard chord system I've come across (including BIAB) will find that easy! (btw, there's no #11 Ab, I think).
I'd experiment with things like: Cmaj7/D; D13, D69 and see what fits best....
After all, no comp-er includes every note in the harmony! Best again - Andy
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 2,270
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 2,270 |
I will admit upfront that I know very little on this subject. However, would it not be possible to put RealBand into the process?
Could you not put the first set of chords (say with the Cmaj7 et al) into BIAB then export all the tracks to RB?
Next, do the same song with the alternate chords (say with the Dmaj7 et al) in BIAB and export only those tracks that would be affected by these new chords? You could omit the drums and perhaps the bass.
Would they not all play the way you wanted them to in RB?
Good luck!
LLOYD S
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jul 2000
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Veteran
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Veteran
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For a work around in BIAB, do one chord, freeze the track, then change to the other chord. All the chord tones will be heard.
The problem is that many of the resulting notes will be in the wrong register.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 234
Apprentice
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Apprentice
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 234 |
i believe they're used for keeping your parrot on his perch
Andrew Lloyd
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
This can be written as Cmaj7/Dmaj7, however not in BB as the slash is used to indicate a desired bass note (e.g. Am7/G).
Hi Tonnie, I'm a proponent of using the "pipe" to indeicate the Polychord in fake notation, rather than the slash. That way, the slash is always indicative of the ostinuto or pedal bass note, the pipe indicates the Poly chord. Cmaj7|Dmaj7 Fake notation is a living language, it is not uncommon to find printed amterials where the slash is used instead of the pipe. At this moment in time, BiaB does not recognize the Polychord. I have, however, come up with workarounds that can sound okay if not look good in the notation. Depending upon the tune at hand, one might try entering Gmaj9/C for the above Polychord, for instance. That would yield the C as bass note, plus the G, B, D, F# and A. But there are quite a few workarounds for these, actually, that won't play every note in the given stack, but can be used to play the "important" notes in most cases. The pieces where the really dense sound of every note in the Polychord, though, I've found difficult to reproduce by just entering chords in BiaB. For those I've had to resort to playing in the part via my MIDI keyboard on the Thru track and leaving it saved as a static part on the Melody or Soloist track. Then, adding BB autoaccompaniment, Bass, Drums, sometimes guitar, as appropriate, can yield the target song in sound if not in chord sheet. But I do encourage you to make a post on the Band in a Box Wishlist Forum so that development can assess the amount of interest in such, it might just end up as a New Feature some day. --Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 24,292
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 24,292 |
Tonnie, Another work around is to use Matt’s freezing suggestion then bring the tracks in your DAW to arrange the notes in the order that you wish. This of course will only work with midi.
Good luck,
I think my wife has started to show the first signs of dementia.
She said she can't remember what she ever saw in me!
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 138
Apprentice
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Apprentice
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 138 |
Agree with Mac 100%.
I so wish the pipe could become the universal standard.
For Cmaj7/Dmaj7, it's clear.
But often I've assumed Cmaj7/D meant D note in the bass... and only later realised they meant Cmaj7|D (ie D triad).
Best - Andy
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 716
Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 716 |
For it to be a true polychord the register has to be separate otherwise it becomes an added note voicing.
Obviously you can move the chord track to a melody and soloist channel and then transpose one of them by the requisite amount of semitones.
The other way which is one I do quite a lot isn't so much a polychord as an added note voicing which will give you the dissonance level but without the separation of register. (It's a moot point as to whether you hear a polychord as two distinct chords anyway or one large chord tied to the root)
to achieve it find the nearest voicing to the combined chord using an inversion over a bass note. Move it to a spare melody channel then use the 'low root' voicing in the melody harmony feature moved up an octave or to to add any missing note from the voicing. The problem with this is that you'll have to enter the note as a single note chord in a new chord sheet to get the melody harmony to add it, meaning a lot of cutting and pasting two sets of changes.
A third way is to find a really sparse left hand chord style that outputs only 3 or four notes max. Enter the first of your two chords and use the same method as above but this time use a 3 note melody harmony to get the other chord.
HTH
Alan
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