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I want to update my BiaB music setup. Mostly I use it to create arrangements for accompanying my solo keyboard, and I record sessions on audio tape. I'd like to get opinions on how to modernize this setup, which predates USB. I have a pdf of the layout and connections. Is there some way to post that with a forum query so that respondents can see exactly what I'm trying to replace? Or can somebody at PG give me some advice? Thanks for your attention, Reg Neale rneale@rochester.rr.com
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Check your Personal Message.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Reg,
There are a lot of options for upgrading. The biggest issue is 'how much do you want to spend?' Since I'm not sure what you have, and what you want to do, I should assume the worst.
Audio Tape? Whoa. So, probably a newer computer, with a couple of hard drives, and a good sound card.
Solo keyboard doesn't sound like it has additional sounds on it, so a new sound module as well.
Updating to the latest and greatest version of BIAB and Real Band, most likely.
Mixer, maybe?
Depending on what you have, where exactly you want to go, and what you want to do, you *could* be looking at a couple of thousand dollars, not to be discouraging, but realistic.
I'm hoping Matt has given you instructions on how to upload your .pdf, but if you'd like to send it to my e-mail along with a detailed description of what you're looking to do, I'll see what I can suggest.
Gary
I'm blessed watching God do what He does best. I've had a few rough years, and I'm still not back to where I want to be, but I'm on the way and things are looking far better now than what they were!
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Hi Gary. Yes, I sent Reg my email address so I can post his PDF temporarily (when he gets back to me). And yes, this post leads to a bunch of questions, so let's see what he has in mind.
ps I still have my 4-track Teac 3340 sound-on-sound reel-to-reel deck that many of us had in the early 70s, so I'm not going to pre-judge anybody else who has tape. I wonder if mine still works ... a project for a rainy day, I guess.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Sorry to say, but realistic... a couple of thousand dollars??? I wonder what defines realistic here. Especially not knowing his budget, plans, and ideas. To pick out the tape example: A tape has been for many years a (well respected) standard, and is not by definition a bad way of recording. In a way it also brings a certain sound that could be appreciated. Different doesnot mean bad, and old is not by definition crappy. In other words, unless we get more specific details and maybe the pdf file under our attention, there is nothing "realistic" we could say or conclude. I would say, a realistic setup could as well be set up, if the ideas and plans fit more to that, to a couple of hundreds for example. So I just wait and see, what will be following up...
I'll be back...
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You know Matt back in the 70's when you used the tape machine I bet you spent more time recording music then with fussing with the computer glitches. Look at Rysard ,he has a musical opportunity and he's spending his time here with computer problems.
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Quote:
You know Matt back in the 70's when you used the tape machine I bet you spent more time recording music then with fussing with the computer glitches.
The guy who had to sit the lowly TapeOp chair like yours truly may shed lots of light on how much it takes to keep a transport up and running properly all the time. Of course, the rich studios on the other side of town would just call the guys in the white lab coats $$$...
--Mac
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Hi Matt. Thanks for responding. Does "personal message" mean it was sent to the email address I gave in my query? I have not received any personal message from you in my mailbox.
Reg
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I meant the home studio. Yes with a DAW you can do so much more however, and maybe it's 'cause I'm the guy they call, if not setup properly you spend more time fixing then making music. To me the key is:
1. A computer dedicated to the task
2. Keep it off of the internet
3. Don't install every program and add-on you can get your hands on
4. don't get your setup so conveluted that you can't remember from day to day how to make it work
5. Keep it simple
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Quote:
Hi Matt. Thanks for responding. Does "personal message" mean it was sent to the email address I gave in my query? I have not received any personal message from you in my mailbox.
Reg
Hi Reg. I just sent you an email with my email address. Send me your PDF as an attachment,
What I meant before was to use the private message capability of this forum. All you need to do is click on the name of a user (above their avatar / picture) and you will see an option at the bottom of the screen to Send a Private Message. But we can do it by regular email. And about that: I highly recommend you take your email address out of that posting if there is still time to edit it, since posting an email address on a forum invites spammers.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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OK, here's Reg's setup diagram: www.mattfinley.com/setup.pdfHe also said: "I'd like to keep the update expense to less than $1K if possible. My goal is to simplify
the setup. I want to keep the two keyboards but hope to eliminate the patch bay, use digital audio
and record digitally.
Thanks for your help."
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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AB,
What defines 'realistic'...well, you're right. I had, at the time, no idea what this gentleman had, or what he wanted to do. So, from that, I took the basics of building a workable, higher quality system from scratch, using a new, mid line computer, a Ketron SD2, MIDI and Audion interfaces, a controller keyboard and some other stuff to come up with an answer.
It was, to me, a 'realistic' number to give what he wanted, basically starting from scratch.
Gary
I'm blessed watching God do what He does best. I've had a few rough years, and I'm still not back to where I want to be, but I'm on the way and things are looking far better now than what they were!
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Reg, WOW. I guess my first question would be, do you like FM Synthesis? In other words, is there some particular reason you want to keep the Yamaha keyboards? Since most new sounds are ‘sample/playback’, like the D110 and SC50, and the Yamahas are FM synthesis, it seems to me that you would want to upgrade some something newer. Next comes the G5. Depending on the exact model you have, you can probably use M-Audio sound cards. For the number of modules and keyboards you have, I think the M-Audio Delta 1010LT would be a perfect solution for you. http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Delta1010LT.htmlThis will eliminate the need for the mixer. Hard drives. You will need two physical hard drives in your computer, one for the ‘system’ drive, and where you have Band In A Box and whatever DAW program you’re going to use, and then one where you’ll store the audio. You should always use a second drive for storing audio, dedicated to just that. Software: To record from multiple sources, i.e., two keyboards and two modules, simultaneously, you’ll need to have a program that will allow you multiple audio inputs. As far as Mac goes, I am not in a position to offer suggestions, but Cubase may be one. Band In A Box will give you a backing track, but only supports one MIDI output and one Audio interface. So, using BIAB as the main application for recording music isn’t that great. There is Apple Logic Express 8 http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LogicExp8/This is an entry level application for recording audio, and will also give you several software synths along with it, as ‘plug ins.’ You can try Cubase Essential 4 http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Cubase4Ess/Again, entry level for the Mac. You could spend a little more and go with Cubase 5 Studio, which has unlimited MIDI and audio tracks http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Cubase5Stu/Finally, you’ll need a MIDI interface. The M-Audio MIDISport 4x4 might be a good idea. I’m sure that the G5 has at least one USB output on it, and you can plug this interface into it, and then direct the outputs from Cubase, or Logic or whatever to the separate midi ports on this. Finally, I would suggest looking at replacing one or all of your sound devices with something newer. Keeping one of the Yamahas to use as a controller keyboard is okay, but I wouldn’t want to use them for sound generation, unless you really *do* want that FM synthesis sound. I would recommend listening to the Ketron SD2, and considering replacing the SC50 with this: http://www.pgmusic.com/ketronsd2.htmIf you need help deciding, listen to these demos of the SD2. FYI, the SD2, SD4 and SD5 all use the same sound engine, so you can listen interchangeably and still get the same sound ideas. Finally, those who use Macs are waiting for the latest release of BIAB that brings the compatibility to that of the PC users. Peter has been promising, but I have no idea when it will happen. That will give you Real Instruments and Real Drums, which will also be a good thing, and you should plan on that upgrade as well. Welcome to the world of computer audio. We’ll be around to help you. Gary
I'm blessed watching God do what He does best. I've had a few rough years, and I'm still not back to where I want to be, but I'm on the way and things are looking far better now than what they were!
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After looking at your setup and considering your budget, my advice is
1) Don't replace anything that's working if you're happy with it.
2) Check out Reaper DAW software ($50.00 shareware, updates are free... and it easily rivals the top name products.)
3) Garriton Personal Orchestra and/or Jazz Big Band sample libraries if you want to upgrade midi sounds. ($200.00 each and worth every penny.)
A second (audio only) hard drive is a good idea. There are a number of inexpensive USB audio interfaces for getting your audio into the computer. Perhaps someone else can recommend one of these for you.
All of the above can be done for about $1,000.00.
Have fun,
Dean
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Gary, thanks for your detailed analysis. Here are some additional questions to help clarify my goals.
Regarding FM synthesis, my level of musical sophistication is not high. I'm not sure I can tell the difference between FM and sampled sounds.
Keeping one of the keyboards as a controller, as you suggest, sounds like a good move. Also, I looked at the MidiSport 4x4 and that should work fine so I can get rid of the patch bay.
Is there a less expensive alternative to the 1010LT? It does a lot, but I probably don't need that many inputs.
What will BiaB's "real instruments" mean in musical terms? Is that a sound source that would replace the Ketron SD2? How about the Edirol SD20, that's a little more affordable? For that matter, how inferior are the free Quicktime instruments built into the Mac? Again, I'm not sure my ear is good enough to tell the difference, so maybe entry-level or only a little higher would be good enough for what I'm doing.
Any recommendations for an inexpensive digital amp to replace the 20-year old Hitachi stereo?
I really appreciate your taking the time to look at my setup and make suggestions.
Reg
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Reg, Believe me, you can tell the difference between FM and Sample Playback. FM Synthesis uses a variet of mathematical algorithms to model a sound. For their time and place, they were revolutionary. Every song in the 1980s used the Yamaha DX7 electric piano.  It was the de facto standard for synths in it's day. But, for 'acoustic' instruments, it still didn't sound 'real.' But, then again, it wasn't. Sample/Playback, also known as 'wavetable' synths are actual digitized samples of real instruments. Ever listen on one of those computerized phone answering things, where it walks you through a whole bunch of stuff? In essence, that's sample playback. You know that they do it by putting bits of recorded words and stuff together to form the sentences. Such as it is with this type of instrument. Maybe you've heard a computer synthesized voice? Doesn't sound real at all, but at least you can understand it. That would be the analogy to FM Synth versus sample playback. Find a song that is heavy on piano. Play the song back through one of the Yamahas, and then play it back through the SC-50. The SC-50, even though it's early generation sample playback, should still sound much more 'realistic' to you. You should be able to use the Delta 66 from M-Audio to do much of what you want, or a small Behringer Mixer and a M-Audio 2496, letting you run all the outputs from your gear into a single mixer, and then recording just two tracks at a time. Also gives you a mic preamp, usually, if you want to record vocals. The Real Instruments are a limited set of instruments that come with the latest PC version of BIAB. PG Music is promising that the Mac version will be out, and will have them, but we still have no time line on that. But, it will replace some of the instrument sounds. For example, the song is "Dream", and is done in two versions. The first version was done several years ago, using a Korg PA80, and the keyboard played all of the parts First version: http://www.catsmeowcafe.com/Music/MP3s/Dream.mp3The second version is using my newer Korg PA800 and Real Instruments. The ONLY part of this that is the keyboard is the melody. All other instruments, including the soloist, are Real Instruments and Band In A Box. Second Version: http://www.catsmeowcafe.com/Music/MP3s/Dream%20Mix.mp3As you can tell from listening, the second version is much better, due entirely to the Real Instruments. I'm not saying you'll get that kind of sound from the Ketron SD2, but I would put the SD2 on par with my PA800. Of course, the price difference is huge, also. My PA800 street price is $2,900, the Ketron can be had for $400 or so. Real Tracks and the SD2 together makes a killer combination. If your goal is to record backing tracks, like mp3s to play with your keyboard on a live gig, you could do it alone with Real Tracks and the Ketron, and the better of your Yamaha keyboards, if you turn the sound from the keyboard off. For that, the SD2, the M-Audio 2496, BIAB with Real Tracks, and one of the Mac sequencers would, literally, be all you need. Save you a lot of money, too. Here's the link to Reaper, mentioned above. For $50, it looks pretty good. http://www.cockos.com/reaper/download.php?l=1As to the amp, I don't know, I use powered monitors, and don't play out. I have KRK Rokit RP5s, which I've been relatively happy with. Gary
Last edited by Gary Curran; 04/21/09 10:03 PM.
I'm blessed watching God do what He does best. I've had a few rough years, and I'm still not back to where I want to be, but I'm on the way and things are looking far better now than what they were!
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2025!
We’ve expanded the Band-in-a-Box® RealTracks library with 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 449-467) across Jazz, Blues, Funk, World, Pop, Rock, Country, Americana, and Praise & Worship—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Blues & World (Sets 449–455):
These RealTracks includes “Soul Jazz” with Neil Swainson (bass), Mike Clark (drums), Charles Treadway (organ), Miles Black (piano), and Brent Mason (guitar). Enjoy “Requested ’60s” jazz, classic acoustic blues with Colin Linden, and more of our popular 2-handed piano soloing. Plus, a RealTracks first—Tango with bandoneon, recorded in Argentina!
Rock & Pop (Sets 456–461):
This collection includes Disco, slap bass ‘70s/‘80s pop, modern and ‘80s metal with Andy Wood, and a unique “Songwriter Potpourri” featuring Chinese folk instruments, piano, banjo, and more. You’ll also find a muted electric guitar style (a RealTracks first!) and “Producer Layered Guitar” styles for slick "produced" sound.
Country, Americana & Praise (Sets 462–467):
We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles
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- Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
- Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
- Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
- Playable RealTracks Set 4
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- RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
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New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
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Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Windows!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: VST3 Plugin Support
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® now includes support for VST3 plugins, alongside VST and AU. Use them with MIDI or audio tracks for even more creative possibilities in your music production.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Macs®: VST3 Plugin Support
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: Using VST3 Plugins
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