PG Music Home Forums PG Music Product Forums Band-in-a-Box for Windows Getting BIAB set up with my keyboard

Folks,

I am a nubee to BIAB. I bought the 2008 version about April of last year, and have played around with it but nothing serious.

I played piano back in my youth (late 60s, early 70s - before computers as we know them) and guitar after that until I mangled my left arm in a motorcycle accident. I am trying to get back into music via the keyboard, and also get my 6 and 8 year old kids into music via the keyboard and fun computer programs that teach music. I know lots about computers, build, fix and program them (for a living), but nothing whatsoever about BIAB, MIDI and so forth.

I just bought an old Ensoniq Zr-76 keyboard (workstation?) for next to nothing when my church bought a new keyboard. I built up to a computer to use with it, installed BIAB and got it functioning.

My hardware is:

Ensoniq Zr-76 keyboard
Small VOX practice amp
Midiman Midisport 2x2 Anniversary Edition
PC running Windows XP Pro
NO SPEAKERS currently, just the practice amp.

The computer communicates with BIAB just fine. I use the synth in the Ensoniq to play the midi stream, and I do so for several reasons:

1) I don't have a speaker system for the computer (though I could send the audio out to the amp I suppose).
2) The kids will be practicing on the keyboard and they are unable to understand getting the computer set up to play the sound. IOW the keyboard and amp need to work stand alone.

So when I start, I press a preset voice on they keyboard (piano, organ, sax etc) and I can play the keyboard and hear the sounds via the keyboard headphone or the amp. Playing the keys cause the midi light to flash indicating that I am sending midi messages. At this point BIAB will not cause the Ensoniq to play the midi stream, however playing the keys on the keyboard does cause BIAB to display them on screen in the upper left "half" keyboard.

When I start BIAB playing a song I have to send a "general midi mode on" message to get the Ensoniq to start playing the midi stream. After that I can play the keyboard and hear it and the BIAB song in the headphones on the keyboard. However now playing the keys on the keyboard does not cause the midi light to light, i.e. no midi messages being sent out of the keyboard, though the light for the channel to the keyboard is flashing, BIAB does NOT display the keys as I play on the keyboard, and BIAB is indeed playing it's tune through the Ensoniq synthesizer.

Now, if I press any button on the keyboard synth, for example select a different preset voice for the keyboard, the keyboard stops playing the midi stream. However the midi light is now flashing indicating I am again sending midi messages to the computer, and BIAB is again displaying the keys played on the Ensoniq on its keyboard display.

I assume this is a keyboard issue but I thought I'd ask if anyone has seen this behavior in any other keyboard / synth. Unfortunately Ensoniq is long out of business and it is tough to find forums for their products, especially something like a 10 year old workstation.

Also, something more directly BIAB related, my keyboard volume is very low. Supposedly the "thru" part controls the parameters for the keyboard but changing the volume has absolutely no effect on the keyboard volume. It appears that because the synth in the keyboard is playing the midi stream, the Ensoniq just mixes the keyboard in directly and out to the amp it goes - as opposed to sending the keys to BIAB, then getting the keys back in the midi stream to be played.

So... I have to drop the midi stream master volume down to about 40 to get the keyboard loud enough to hear.

I am wondering if I am going to be able to "record" my keyboard (what I play) back into the BIAB song. It appears that at this point I either have midi out of the keyboard, or midi in to the keyboard, but not both at the same time. Is this normal with keyboard / synth systems or should the keyboard be able to output the keys at the same time it is receiving and playing the midi stream?

I suspect that this whole problem would go away if I just routed the computer audio to the amp and left the keyboard simply sending keys to BIAB, but as I mentioned I REALLY want my kids to be able to play without having to work the computer - keyboard / amp stand alone.

Any assistance figuring this out would be much appreciated.

You need to find a guru for that specific Ensoniq keyboard or at least search online to see if there isn't a downloadable owner's manual for it.

I suspect that there is an setting internal to the Ensoniq that must be found and set to the right setting.

It is a very old keyboard as MIDI goes, may not be GM compat, which can be worked around in BIAB with reassigning of instruments. If it is playing the BIAB instruments and sounds like what they are labled in BIAB, then that is not a problem.

Look for settings such as, "MIDI Echo" or "Local On/Off" in the Ensoniq, experiment with them and BIAB one at a time.

And welcome to the fun!

--Mac

Sounds like you are looking for just one setting in the Ensoniq.

Don't worry the channels, just make sure the Ensq is internally set to ALL or OMNI or whatever they may call that mode.

Then find the keywords I mentioned above in the manual, so that you can turn the internal MIDI that is hooked direct from keyboard to internal synth at the moment such that the MIDI output from keyboard or patch change commands is first sent thru BIAB and then returned to the keyboard's MIDI synth.


--Mac

Mac,

Well, I have managed to do something. Unfortunately I don't know what. First of all the keywords you mentioned are not to be found in the manual AFAICT.

The Ensoniq has a 16 track recorder. The book talks about setting up the channels of the recorder as midi outs so... I chose track 16 and started fiddling.

The book discusses

Xmit Bank:prg
16 001 001

16 is the recorder channel. Bank - no clue. Prg - no clue.

I went to the back of the book and found a discussion of prg, basically a bunch of instruments. I basically set Xmit to 16, bnk and prg to 001 and

Now... I can somehow (not sure of the precise sequence) get the keys to play through the "thru" voice in BIAB (not sure of terminology here) and I can in fact select instruments etc. BIAB causes the keyboard to play the instrument selected in the Thru voice back in BIAB. But getting set up to play is just a "try things" experience back in biab. If I hit GM and then Play, the rhythm machine in the keyboard starts playing, nothing else. I have to turn that off. Then start the song. The song plays and I can hear the keyboard now but nothing in the BIAB keyboard. Then I play around some more and suddenly... I am getting control just as I envision I should, via the Thru voice. Select an instrument good. Select a volume - good. Etc.

But what is doing what is totally inexplicable. No clear "click this then this" kind of path.

I guess this is the real cost of buying an old unsupported keyboard. While I have a manual it talks in terms I don't understand, and I have no background to assist me in interpreting the manual.

Oh well, back to "try this n that".

*You should not be messing around with the ESQ built-in sequencer at all. Ignore it. All you want here is for the Keyboard MIDI output to route to the computer MIDI input and the computer MIDI output to route to the ESQ's internal synthesizer input.

This is from a user manual I found online in an archive site:

Quote:

---

In the MR/ZR, press the Select button in the SoundFinder Section
Turn the Parameter knob to get to the MIDI OUT Instrument.
This simple setting puts the ZR/MR into multi mode and turns keyboard local
control off.

---

That should do the trick, but there may be a need to RESET that ESQ to factory settings first, depending upon how many buttons have been pushed and stored in the past.

Here is a link to the site I found:

http://www.fumph.com/?page_id=4


Good luck,


--Mac

JW,
Press the System/MIDI button. Turn the Parameter knob until the display says "Enter GM mode?" Press Yes.

That should get you started.

I do not know if you will be able to SEND data to Band In A Box, but I would assume you can.

I'll try to have more answers for you.

Okay, this manual reads like Latin to me! Leave the keyboard in General MIDI mode. However, you want to go into the system and turn the Bank Select Rcv and enable that.

Starting on page 434, you'll find a list of sounds. Next to the sound name will be GM, ROM, Int or something and then two numbers, xxx:yyy. The xxx is the Bank number, and is equivalent to BANK0 in BIAB. The yyy is the Program Change number.

For instance, if you want (and honestly, I don't know if this will allow you to do this in General MIDI mode, but we can try) the 12-string acoustic guitar for the guitar part in BIAB. Select the Guitar button, and then put '5' in the Bank window. Next, from the Instrumemt drop down, select 3 Electric Grand Piano. While BIAB says Grand Piano, you *should* get a 12-string acoustic guitar

Good luck!

Gary

LOL, you think the manual reads like Latin to you, it reads like Chinese to me. It truly does assume that the reader has a keyboard / synth / workstation background, which I do not.

Seriously though, I had set the keyboard up to respond to GM messages and it will play BIAB songs just fine. The issue is that is rather schizo when it comes to the buttons on the synth. Mac found at least one key item where I have to set the Sound Finder to Midi OUT. After that (and a Midi Reset, and start in BIAB) the keyboard will now play through the BIAB Thru voice, IF I set the "LSB" to something other than zero. Unfortunately something (I haven't managed to figure out exactly what) causes the Thru voice to reset to some guitar instrument and the LSB goes back to 000 (this in BIAB) and the keyboard stops making sounds, though it does still display in the upper left keyboard.

So I have a variety of issues happening here, some in BIAB and some in the keyboard itself.

It is mostly working now however. I am able to get the keyboard to play through BIAB and back out to the synth in the keyboard. I can select the instrument in the Thru voice in BIAB, set the attack (volume) etc. And apparently doing all this directly sets the stuff out in the synth because even if I close BIAB the keyboard continues to play whatever BIAB programmed it to play last.

Of course if any of the Soundfinder Favorites buttons on the keyboard are pressed... ALL BETS ARE OFF. I have to go back in and fiddle in BIAB to get it "setup" to work with the keyboard again. This truly is an issue (if a small issue) because my 6 year old daughter LOVES to press buttons on the keyboard, and one of the major points of the keyboard is to allow the kids to start learning to play.

Luckily I have figured out how to get that BIAB stuff working quickly enough now.

And very likely, IF I dig back in and learn to play, I will go get a simple weighted 88 key keyboard only. With a modern computer all of the synth stuff is much easier to do on a computer. At least all the fiddling is in one place.

Inside BIAB under the GM menu is a command to "send GM on" message at startup.

Try checking that one.

Then close down BB and reopen and see if the ESQ receives and likes that GM message, could save you the extra button pushing.



--Mac

This stuff can be tricky. I had the same problem when trying to use the GM mode in my old Alesis QS8. It would play Biab tracks just fine but as soon as I tried to change to a specific sound so I could play along, the Alesis would jump out of GM. There might be an answer, don't know but just spend $40 for the Forte DXi software synth and be done with it. The Forte probably sounds at least as good if not better than the GM sounds on the Ensoniq. What happens is you use the Forte for all the Biab tracks then you're only using the Ensoniq for playing one sound on the thru channel.
Ensoniq was bought out by EMU some years ago, then EMU was bought by Creative. The board is actually pretty decent. It's a fully weighted piano action 76 key workstation and it's good for your kids to learn piano technique on. I almost bought one but got the QS8 instead because the piano sound was way better and they both use the Fatar keyboard action. While the Ensoniq is fully weighted, the piano sound was it's weakest point. A lot of the other sounds are pretty good though. I remember liking some of the organs and Rhodes on it.
Keep learning it, it's not some junk keyboard and Ensoniq was known for having the best on board sequencer in the business. As a PC tech I'm sure you have some A drives and 3.5 floppies laying around. You can burn your Biab songs as Standard Midi Files (SMF) and put the disc in the drive on the Ensoniq. I know you can play along with the midi's that way. This works both ways, btw. You can use the sequencer to create a midi file and load it into Biab or better yet Real Band for further manipulation. You have a lot of possibilities with that Ensoniq.

Bob

Bob,

I won't be replacing the Ensoniq any time soon that is for sure. I like the keyboard itself, it feels good and plays nice. I can select 16 different preselect instruments, split the keyboard, all that stuff. It is really nice for a place to just power on and play. As far as composing and stuff, I won't be there any time soon. I still need to get back into playing the piano and get my theory back.

I can play along to BIAB just fine, but I can't change the sound via the keyboard itself. That causes the Ensoniq to stop playing the midi track. I can get it going again just by sending the MIDI reset etc but in the end I will probably just "program" any instrument changes via BIAB / MIDI.

I am going to go buy some computer speakers soon I think. Then I can use the computer sound card and leave the practice amp for the keyboard when I just want to play without the computer.

Doesn't BIAB have some synth built in? You mention "buying the Forte DXi", is that necessary?

Use the mouse and the dropdown window in BIAB to select instrument patches then.

BIAB does NOT have a built in synth. Never has, to my knowledge. The PC has a built in synth, the Microsoft SW Wavetable GM thingy whatchmacallit. That's a scaled down version of the Roland VSC. The Forte, actually, may not be a bad thing, except that you'll need to hook some kind of speakers up to the PC sound card to hear it.

Gary