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First, big thanks to Pat Marr for alerting me to a special price on Garritan Personal Orchestra yesterday! I bought it and have been playing with it in Reaper and now want to see what is possible in BIAB.
But before I spend any more time trying to get it to do things...I kinda need to know what it can do. So my first question is, can BIAB automatically generate an accompaniment track using GPO as its source much like it does for RealTracks and MIDI SuperTracks? Or, will I always have to enter my music using an external keyboard or my PC?
And my second question is should I switch to RealBand for using GPO? That seems to be what PG recommends.
Thanks in advance for any help!
Last edited by JohnJohnJohn; 09/05/13 02:55 AM.
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I have GPO and have used it in Sonar as the source synth for midi tracks. So, in BB, for example, you have a string track that may be midi, you could use GPO to provide a cello or a violin.
I'm not sure how you might do this in BB but in Real Band I think it would be a simple matter to assign the midi to GPO..... as one would do in Sonar. I have never used RB as a DAW so I'm not 100% sure exactly what the process is...... I'm guessing similar to Sonar. Output midi track to GPO synth track and select the sample in GPO to play.
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 09/05/13 06:49 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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The only problem with using GPO with BiaB is the mod wheel. GPO interprets the mod wheel level as a volume control, not as modulation (effectively vibrato).
GPO does this because it's a controller that's available on many keyboards, so it makes it easy to control that aspect.
Only BiaB doesn't know that GPO uses the modulation controller differently. At the beginning of playback, BiaB (sensibly) sets the mod control wheel to zero. And if you use the humanize playback option, BiaB will send mod wheel events to the track to add vibrato to instruments if appropriate.
Unfortunately, it's not appropriate with GPO.
On some instruments (such as the piano), it has no effect. On others (such as the flute or strings) setting the mod wheel to zero set the volume of the instrument to zero.
There's no setting in GPO to ignore mod wheel events, and no setting in BiaB to not send mod wheel events at the start of the track. (You can tell it not to send mod wheel events as part of the humanize playback).
To get around this, you can manually insert CC events at the beginning of the tracks to set the mod wheel yourself. It's a bit of a pain, but it works. I can't recall if you need to do this each time you regenerate the MIDI track, though.
That's one of the reasons I create the tracks in BiaB and export them to a DAW. The main problem with that approach is that you can't import back into BiaB after you've fiddled with stuff. That's probably why using RB is suggested.
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thanks Guitarhacker and dcuny!
sounds like I may have a reason now to learn RealBand!
but because I am absolutely and totally ignorant about MIDI I am still wondering if RealBand will generate parts for me (like it does with RealTracks and MIDI Supertracks) using GPO? or will I need to create those parts (using a keyboard or manually in the software) and then apply an instrument from GPO to it?
I apologize if my question makes no sense...I really know nothing in this area!
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I don't think RB will generate a part for you in midi using GPO or any synth as it's output.
I think that is reserved for the samples and real tracks.
I might be wrong, but I've not seen that ability in it...yet.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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If you go to RB help file > Content > render(or)rendering you will get a guide on how to do this.
I do my rendering to wav withe VSTi's inside BIAB, but RB also does it.
BTW, once you've done this you'll never be happy the other way.....
Last edited by seeker; 09/05/13 03:00 PM.
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thanks seeker...I read that but it seems to be more about rendering an existing track to audio. what I'm puzzled about is how to create the MIDI track in the first place!
I'll try and explain further but I have to apologize in advance because 1) I know nothing about MIDI and 2) I can only use BIAB as a reference as I have not yet used RealBand.
So, here is something I can do now with BIAB,
1) start a new song
2) mute all tracks except one
3) on the unmuted track select MIDI SuperTrack and select 2060:Strings
4) enter my chords
5) press GenPlay and BIAB generates a nice string accompaniment that follows my chords
Is there any way to do something similar using GPO4 instead of the MIDI SuperTrack?
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Realband will definitely generate midi styles and super midi tracks using vst's, such as gpo, for playback. I'm not at my computer right now, but, right click on a track in Realband and toward the bottom of the list you will see generate midi solo, style, super midi. When you click on your selection, a choice list will open just like in B&B. Also, the first 8 tracks of realband can work just like B&B. This forum has helped many, many people come to grips with midi...Bobby
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The quick answer to your question is that both Real Band and BIAB can generate MIDI parts just like they generate REAL TRACKS. In BIAB some of the styles are RT styles, and some are MIDI styles. The MIDI styles generate MIDI tracks, and a MIDI track can be played thru any soft synth (Which is what GPO is) That's step 1, knowing what is possible Step 2 is knowing how to do it. here's a link to the tutorial: http://www.pgmusic.com/tutorial_garritan.htm
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I went through the tutorial using RealBand but was never able to get anything generated by RB. I could "play" using the virtual keyboard and hear the GPO4 sounds but could not figure how to get RB to generate accompaniment using GPO.
I'll try it again later starting from scratch! Thanks so much for your help and again I apologize for my ignorance as the whole MIDI and RB thing is completely new to me.
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Ok. think I'm making a little progress! In RealBand I was able to generate a melody made up of GPO sounds!!  And, I poped open that Piano Roll window and started moving notes around and...indeed there is a whole 'nother game to be learned here!
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Apparently there is a whole lot of things I am missing or just unaware of in BB/RB as evidenced by reading this post....and some others.
Now the question is..... do I have the time and desire to dig in and learn how these aspects of the program work in order to incorporate this into my musical production?
Hummmmmmmmmmmmm...................
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Apparently there is a whole lot of things I am missing or just unaware of in BB/RB as evidenced by reading this post....and some others. once a user gets past the low hanging fruit in the PGMusic programs (and there's a LOT of that!) it becomes evident that the product is an iceberg of potential, and much of it lies outside the realm of first glance. Now the question is..... do I have the time and desire to dig in and learn how these aspects of the program work in order to incorporate this into my musical production?
Hummmmmmmmmmmmm................... The good news is that it's a cohesive system, and the stuff you don't use yet probably works just like the stuff you already use... so there may be far less of a learning curve than you think. Also, let's face it: musicians love new gear. We buy it because it adds new performing or recording possibilities. This thread is an example of how a new soft synth can open doors of possibility. But a cheaper way to add new possibilities is to fully exploit the software you already own. Based on your posts, Herb, I'd say you are a lifetime learner. You aren't content to stay in one place, you are a continuous improver. Once you establish the fact that you're always learning, It boils down to the question of what you will learn TODAY. From a learning perspective, BIAB/RB are like the Readers Digest. You don't have to read a whole book, just read a condensed version. Pick one feature and mess with it. By playing you absorb knowledge without feeling like you invested time at all.
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Good points......and yes, I have known pretty much since I first purchased the very first Band in a Box and started using it that there was so much more to this program than I would ever use on a daily basis.
The problem is..... finding the time...and yeah I know..... I have to MAKE the time.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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to generate a MIDI track in Real Band:
1) pick a MIDI style in the style picker and make it the active style
2) Each track can be either a MIDI track or an AUDIO track... in order to generate MIDI, it obviously needs to be a MIDI track. In the LEFT pane of the track, Right click BELOW the track title (not ON it) and a menu appears. From this menu:
____a) make it a MIDI track
____b) assign a MIDI channel
____c) assign a specific VSTi/Dxi soft synth for the track
____d) use the patch select dialog to pick the patch
3) right click in the RIGHT pane of the track (where the music WAV appears in an audio track) and scroll down the pop-up menu until you find an option that says GENERATE MIDI
4) another pop-up menu will appear asking if you want to generate the BASS, DRUMS, PIANO, GUITAR or STRINGS track from that style. (Pick one)
once you pick the instrument you want to generate, RB will create the track from that style the same as it would if you generated a song in BIAB using that same style.
This is basically the same procedure used to generate:
- Real Tracks
- LOOPS
- MIDI SUpertracks (except the MIDI supertracks let you pick from a list, more like the way you pick a real track. Generating a non-supertrack MIDI track always uses the current style.)
However, you can change styles over and over again, generating new MIDI tracks each time. Given the number of MIDI styles (over 1,000!) with multiple instruments in each style, this feature makes ALL of the instruments in all of the styles available to RB!!
Very Powerful!
on my style picker there are 3,349 styles shown. Each style has 5 instruments
3,349 * 5 = 16,745 unique tracks that could be generated in RB
plus, all of those track have multiple generation possibilities. Assuming only 10 generation possibilities per track (which I'm sure is wayyy low), now we're looking at...
over 160,000 unique track generations!!
With more being added at every new version! If I never bought another piece of gear or software, what I already have could keep me busy for the rest of my life.
(But I'll probably buy more anyway.)
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I forgot to mention that if you also generate the REAL CHART along with a REAL TRACK, you can send the MIDI data from the real chart to a soft synth. This is useful for adding pads to a guitar part.
Or, you can open the real chart in piano roll and move the notes around to create a MIDI harmony for the audio real track
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Ok. think I'm making a little progress! In RealBand I was able to generate a melody made up of GPO sounds!! And, I poped open that Piano Roll window and started moving notes around and...indeed there is a whole 'nother game to be learned here! welcome to the world of MIDI, John! You are embarking on a path that will dramatically increase the possibilities in your musical bag of tricks! This forum has some of the smartest MIDI gurus I've encountered. SOMEBODY here will know the answer to any MIDI related question you can think up. You're in the right place to start learning about what MIDI can do. And its a very deep well.
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THANK YOU SO MUCH PAT!!!!!! (but of course, I have loads of questions!!!)
1) pick a MIDI style in the style picker and make it the active style
How do I know what style to pick? What effect does this choice have on my final track? It seems to not matter what I pick as ultimately the track will be using the VSTi instrument sound anyway?
____c) assign a specific VSTi/Dxi soft synth for the track
This makes sense...now I am picking something from GPO
____d) use the patch select dialog to pick the patch
But what does this do? I already picked my sound so what am I doing here and what effect will it have on my final track?
3) right click in the RIGHT pane of the track (where the music WAV appears in an audio track) and scroll down the pop-up menu until you find an option that says GENERATE MIDI
I do not see that option...I see Generate MIDI Track with options to choose the Bass, Drums, Piano, etc. and when I select that it says "Can't generate on top of an existing BB MIDI track"
I tried Generate MIDI Solo and that worked but again I am puzzled as to why I am once again needing to choose from a list of 360 styles and it does not seem to matter what I choose for the final track sound!
I did get some tracks to generate but still do not understand why I need to pick all of those various styles when I have a specific VSTi instrument in mind.
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THANK YOU SO MUCH PAT!!!!!! (but of course, I have loads of questions!!!)
1) pick a MIDI style in the style picker and make it the active style
How do I know what style to pick? What effect does this choice have on my final track? It seems to not matter what I pick as ultimately the track will be using the VSTi instrument sound anyway? It helps if you are familiar with the styles, because there's no way to demo the sound before you apply it to your song. (Wishlist item!) You can change the sound of the track with one of the GPO patches, but each of the midi styles generates its own distinct patterns. In other words, in a country style the generated notes will be different than in a track generated from a rock style or jazz style. If you go to BIAB and apply a bunch of different styles to the same chords, you'll see what I mean. In fact, BIAB may be the best way to demo the styles to see which ones you want to add to your project
____c) assign a specific VSTi/Dxi soft synth for the track
This makes sense...now I am picking something from GPO
at that step, you will be picking from a list of soft synths, and in this case you'd pick the ARIA player because that's what drives the GPO sounds
____d) use the patch select dialog to pick the patch
But what does this do? I already picked my sound so what am I doing here and what effect will it have on my final track?
good point. If you had picked a general MIDI soft synth such as coyote forte, you could pick the patch used in the current track as described here. But ARIA has its own way of assigning patches to a track... so in your case you wouldn't need to use the right click menu to pick the patch
3) right click in the RIGHT pane of the track (where the music WAV appears in an audio track) and scroll down the pop-up menu until you find an option that says GENERATE MIDI
I do not see that option...I see Generate MIDI Track with options to choose the Bass, Drums, Piano, etc.
that's the right menu item...
and when I select that it says "Can't generate on top of an existing BB MIDI track"
scroll down until the tracks change color and pick one of those tracks. The first few tracks are BB tracks and you can't generate MIDI on a track that has data or is reserved for BB
I tried Generate MIDI Solo and that worked but again I am puzzled as to why I am once again needing to choose from a list of 360 styles and it does not seem to matter what I choose for the final track sound!
OK, start by asking yourself what genre your song will be in. If you're writing a country song and you need to add a piano track, then pick a country style and generate a midi track from the piano part
I did get some tracks to generate but still do not understand why I need to pick all of those various styles when I have a specific VSTi instrument in mind.
OK, lets say you want to add some of those excellent GPO strings to your song. Look thru the style picker for a style that would probably contain a string section. Classical and ballad styles typically have strings. Pick one of those styles and when you "generate midi track" pick STRINGS. RB will generate a track that will probably sound good with a GPO strings patch applied. There is no rule for picking the right style to get the sound you want... you have to experiment and listen to a lot of the midi styles. You may want to write down the name of styles that have parts you like
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Actually, here's what I would do if I were you:
1) start your project in BIAB. Demo many styles against your chords, and when you find a style you like save the project
2) open the same saved project in RealBand. Assign the MIDI tracks to GPO
by starting in BIAB you get the benefit of working with styles that contain tracks that work together very well. You don't have to search for something that works. You know right away what the song will sound like.
But when you open it in RB and assign the MIDI to GPO, it will sound a lot better than it did when you demoed it using coyote wavetable soft synth in BIAB
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
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The 2025 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2025 49-PAK!
Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Mac!
With your version 2025 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Or upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 33 new RealTracks and 65+ new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 29 new RealTracks and 45+ new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
- Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
- Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
- Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
- Playable RealTracks Set 4
- RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
- SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
- 128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
- Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
- Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
- RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®!
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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