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I've got about 10 decent original songs I've recorded at home. I have a mix of BIAB/Real Band tracks with my live recorded vocals and acoustic guitar parts. The recordings sound decent, but are not pro grade. I'm going to meet with a local recording studio later today to discuss rerecording the vocal and guitar tracks in the studio, then remixing with my back up tracks. I would probably book enough studio time to redo two songs, one simple, one complex, to get an idea of the time involved.
Has anyone had a similar experience? How did it turn out? Any tips?
Brian
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Brian.....
Why not post a link to a few of the backing tracks you are referring to?
I have done some demo work in the past on some tunes I wrote (back in the days before BB/RB and digital stuff). Now days it is so easy to do a decent job on this at home in a small studio with a modest investment in some good gear. That said, going to a studio may help not only from the aspect of getting good tracks for the guitars and vocals but it gives you the chance to learn, to ask questions and to pick the brain of someone who does this every day.
There is, however, a learning curve involved when you want to do it at home in your own studio. Beside the cost, there is the time to learn what to do and how to do it. However, for most musicians, this is not a "far jump" especially those with band and playing experience and the desire to learn how.
You didn't say what gear (for recording) you currently have. IMHO a good interface (USB w/ ASIO drivers), a good condenser mic, and some software tools like Melodyne and Ozone will go a long ways towards getting you some very professional results once you learn how they work.
If the planned project is for fun...... do it yourself and invest the budget in some gear. Same thing if it's for selling CD's at gigs to fans. If you are looking for a professional level project to use for career advancement in the music biz.... something going to record companies etc..... get the entire thing done professionally.
Unless you have some "mad skills" already in mixing and production, the pro's can tell that the instruments are not real players. It's possible to fool them with good production but it takes some work....and having the aforementioned tools and using them.
Since you are only planning to do 2 songs in this manner, it will not be a very costly expense, and the cost should justify what you will learn in the time.
Personally, I got into home recording because as a song writer, I could not afford to drop $500 on a song in a demo studio. Plain and simple. Anyone writing songs more then the one song a year writer, would need to have deep pockets to support that habit. For the cost of half a dozen studio sessions, I have a decent home studio and can now produce all the stuff in house, and have the occasional 3rd party involved across the internet.
On my music site, Come & Go (Rose2012) The vocal was recorded in another studio in another town while I recorded the music in my home studio. Missing person, had fully half of the tracks recorded by my co-writer in Atlanta in his home studio, and the fiddle was recorded in Vermont in another friend's home studio. The internet opens all sorts of new possibilities with music.
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 09/09/13 04:27 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Good advice Herb.
Good luck Brian.
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"Has anyone worked with a pro studio to mix their tracks?" Yes... I was in a similar situation about 6 years ago so here's my story. I had three songs that I just didn't think I could massage enough (final mix/master/lead axe) to my satisfaction. So, I sent three songs to a buddy of mine in L.A. (Ted Perlman) who ran Buffalo Sound which he has since changed to 'The Ranch'. http://www.tedperlman.com/I'd known him since the early Cakewalk (Sonar) newsgroup days back in the mid 90's. I was comfortable with the (3) tunes and the raw tracks I'd recorded. He said send him the raw tracks on a CD at -10db levels and he'd do the rest. He also added lead axe parts on (2) of the them which is one of the main reasons I'd considered this route for these songs.....I was sure my lead axe work on these would NOT be good enough for my liking. I got a great deal and I was very pleased with the end result and felt they were now worthy enough to add to my soundclick page. Incidentally, I also drove to LA and had worked with Ted on a different project back in 2003 or so therefore I'd had the familiarity with him and knew his abilities and who he'd worked with. Carry on....
Last edited by chulaivet1966; 09/15/13 09:16 AM.
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Of course, having Ted Perlman playing guitar on your songs didn't hurt one bit. Ted's an amazing guitar player and a great producer.
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Of course, having Ted Perlman playing guitar on your songs didn't hurt one bit. Ted's an amazing guitar player and a great producer. Hey Harv.... Ha....that's an understatement and I concur with your other comments. I haven't yakked with him in a few years but if I had another song ready I would go the same route and recommend him highly. (on a side note I met Phil Cody [Neil Sedaka song writer] at the studio when I drove down there. A great visit I might add. Thanks Harv for chiming in that you know him also. Don't mean to derail here....back to topic.
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I'm going to try using SONAR X2 for mixing etc. Will report back later.
Regards, Malcolm
Malcolm F Hill - writer and producer of beautifully relaxing ambient instrumental music.
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Thanks to all for their comments.
I met with the engineer. He liked my tracks and thought he could improve them with a pro mix. I've scheduled a block of time with him next week to record the acoustic guitar and vocal tracks, then he will mix with my BIAB/Real Band tracks. I listened to some of his acoustic recordings, and the sound quality is way better than what I've been able to get at home. I'm also excited about pro recordings on the vocals. I realize that my vocal recordings are not nearly as good as they could be...largely because I'm focusing half my energy on the recording process, rather than concentrating on the singing. I'm looking forward to hearing how well I can sing with 100% focus.
I'll keep you posted, and will post the final result.
Brian
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Brian, that's the thing about doing it all at home..... you really have to be able to switch hats and do the job that is required at the time.
Engineer, producer, writer, artist..... and all pretty much at or about the same time. A juggling act, but not impossible.
Learn from the studio and ask questions. Of course, having the gear that the studio has also kinda helps too.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Here's the update: The studio recording was quicker and easier than I imagined. Recorded the guitar and vocal parts in just a couple of takes with a punch in or two. The vocal was way better than I could do at home. The engineer coached my effort, and I was able to focus on singing, not on recording. The mixing was more complicated than I thought. Overall I'm really happy with the final product. I originally wrote and recorded this song two years ago. The new version is night and day better. I've already scheduled my next session. Here is the link if you'd like to hear it. Listen all the way through, because there is a build as it goes along. Tracks are live guitar and vocal, BIAB drums, organ, bass. http://www.soundclick.com/player/single_player.cfm?songid=12516861&q=hi&newref=1Brian
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nice.
Try to make these sessions lessons on mixing as well. Ask questions.
Mixing is really not that hard or mysterious. Take notes on what he does. Pay attention to EQ and compression.
Anyway, it does sound good.
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 10/01/13 04:40 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Brian,
Actually, I would say this is REALLY nice. Sounds great.
You should post this in the Showcase - with a good explanation of the whole process. It would be beneficial to all, I'd say.
Really enjoyed listening to your song.
floyd
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I agree with floyd. post and describe the process.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Hi Brian,
Good job.
And it shows that one does not necessarily have to wade through the process of becoming a Recording Engineer as well as being a songwriter and performer, jobbing it out as you have done is indeed a viable option.
I too encourage you to post this in the BB User Showcase, because not only is it a good job, it also answers the oft-sked question about whether or not Band in a Box tracks can be used to make a "pro" quality recording sound. Your work here does not have any of the what I call the deadly "BB Giveaways" in it, one would be hard put to prove that there were not a full session of live players on the date by what they hear.
Good Job.
--Mac
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Hi Brian,
Good job.
...... it also answers the oft-sked question about whether or not Band in a Box tracks can be used to make a "pro" quality recording sound. .......
--Mac of course it can. I have a number of songs made with BB signed into professional and top tier music libraries. many others here produce some top notch stuff as well. Most of the time it does require using live tracks mixed with BB/RB tracks and some work in a DAW mastering and polishing the sound but it is totally possible. Writing quality really matters too, and that is something BB/RB can not help you with.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Writing quality really matters too, and that is something BB/RB can not help you with. I feel differently about that statement, but it's all in how you work. One person may want everything played just so or really planned out, another may be more open to possibilities. I've used RB generated tracks in songs that ended up being a new integral part of the song, and I didn't 'make it' do that part; Realtracks just generated something so fitting that it drove the development of the other 'live' tracks in a whole another direction. I think the corroborators on those projects would agree (except the BB generated corroborator, he has no say now).
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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....Your work here does not have any of the what I call the deadly "BB Giveaways...."
--Mac Hey Mac, I'm curious as to what these deadly giveaways are and, consequently, I'm interested in examples or descriptions of them. I have a family member who has spent decades in various studios as a player and in mixing his and other groups and he's extremely impressed with the quality of and the ability to manipulate RT's.
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos
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The first of my giveaways is when someone uses one of the "stock" styles and just hits the button. That generates figures that, if you are familiar with the BB styles enough, you've heard a few gazillion times before.
There are ways to avoid that, such as simply regenerating a few times using the Replay button until you get something a bit different, or as many do, exporting to DAW and slicing and dicing to make what is called a Compilation Track.
Compilation is used with live players in the studio, as well, editing several takes into one take, or moving a nice phrase from one place to several or many places, perhaps to use as a hook, things like that are fairly oommon.
So why not treat the BB generated tracks in the same fashion?
--Mac
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FWIW, I've never used a style in the many genres that we've worked with. I just prefer to start with a blank slate, choose my key, tempo and pick my RT's. I move everything into a DAW and to me that's where the work begins. I'll frequently use a dozen or more regenerations of one RT and cut/splice them into the fills and solos I want. Frequently, for example, I might have 6 or more splices in one 12 bar blues solo. I'm relatively new at this but my approach is to create a solo that hints at the melody as much as possible or at the very least doesn't distract from it.
I come from years of bluegrass/blues/alt country and thus have worked mostly with acoustic RT's until fairly recently. I've been working lately with some country/country pop/jazzish/western swing endeavors on which I've begun to use electric instruments and drums. Floyd has helped me enormously on these types of productions and I'm becoming a bit more comfortable with them.
I find the correct selection of drums and the cutting/splicing of electric instruments to be much more challenging...but that's likley due to my lack of experience with them not, I think, due to any inherent difficulty with the RTs. I spent thirty years playing bass in bluegrass and occasional blues groups and BIAB has allowed me after all these years to bring some of my ideas for other genres to fruition. I had some studio experience over the years and the amount of time we spent to produce what I can do on my iMac in relatively short order is mind boggling.
Last edited by Janice & Bud; 10/01/13 06:02 PM.
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos
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That's "pretty much" the kind of thing I was getting at, there is a big difference between someone who has the ears to be able to discriminate the various and sometimes subtle musical differences involved in ensemble "multitrack" instrumentation.
That same factor is discussed in the "Less is More" thread, as well.
Often is the case where having an instrument assigned to *EVERY* track available and leaving all those instruments playing throughout the performance inside BB is "too much" IMO.
This reminds me of the situation I encountered decades ago, before there were any computer generated methods, in the old analog studios, when I first was hired to do session work on Trumpet, Keyboards or Guitar for local stuff, nothing very big. Commercials, Demos, Church Groups, etc. were the bread and butter of that little studio.
My first attempts to overdub piano parts, for example, were dismal failures. The problem was that I was attempting to prove something, wading in with two-handed piano renditions that simply were over-played and thus too dense to be of much use.
The old man who owned and operated that little studio as a one-man operation took me aside and into the Control Room, played back the tracks and, while looking directly at me, lowered the Fader that was my piano playing all the way off and, of course, what we heard was an improvement *without* any piano.
Then he told me something that I've tried to keep in mind ever since:
"Put yer left hand in yer pocket and let's try it again!"
I rather sheepishly sat his studios rather amazing sounding little Baldwin spinet piano with the front panels removed and the acoustic rugs covering it and the mics, and proceeded to play with mostly Right Hand Only over the other tracks. It worked much better that way.
From there, I began to have to think about when it is appropriate for the piano to add necessary rhythm or comping and when it would be more necessary for the piano's job to be one of fills, riffs and other enhancements rather than punching out a rhythm that was already there in the thing.
The same situation can happen to us when using BiaB if we are not attuned to hearing such things.
So "too dense" in one aspect or another is the 2nd BB "giveaway" I'm going to mention here.
--Mac
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