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An English teacher is remarking to her class how curious it is that a double negative means a positive (e.g., his trumpet playing is not without merit) whereas there is nothing like a double positive that means a negative.
From the back of the room, a student yells out something, the entire class cracks up, and the teacher turns red.
What did the student say?
Aleck
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"Yeah. Right"
Actually most languages use double negatives to good purpose. They are useful for emphasis, such as when you want to let your kids know that you really, really, really are not going to get them all new iphones 5. This usefulness is reflected in the instinctive way that so many of us use double negatives without thinking, on occasion.
English grammar texts copied their insistence against double negatives from Latin grammar.
Last edited by flatfoot; 10/12/13 09:00 AM.
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Hey Flatfoot - very good!! Actually, what the kid yelled was "Yeah, yeah ..." But your answer is fine. I'll need to come up with something trickier for the likes of you.
Aleck
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Aleck, Just to give you a bit of forewarning, Flatfoot is an English teacher  Flatfoot also mentions how some languages use what we might describe as 'double negatives' to reinforce the degree of negativity. I seem to recall someone saying that Russian does this, for example. While English usually frowns on double negatives as poor language use, we still have this to a very limited degree with the 'nor' conjunction. Then, too, there are those phrases that incorporate a prefix with negative connotations alongside negative words. For example, the sentence "Mr Jones was not incompetent" (taken from the Wikepedia article on double negatives found here). That sentence could also be expanded to include even more negatives: such as, "Mr Jones was not incompetent nor inconsiderate" ... etc. Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2026
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>>>.. "Mr Jones was not incompetent" (taken from the Wikepedia article on double negatives found here)....>>>>
...but these examples prove the so-called 'rule.' The double negative is not intended to emphasize negativity. The two negatives do indeed add up to a positive: 'Mr Jones is competent.'
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The English language is a living language.
Latin would be a good example of a dead language.
A dead language is one in which there is no current population using said language on a daily basis and so that language is considered to be impervious to the kind of changes that culture, society, technology and changing times can bring to a language that is still in use.
This is why the scientific and legal fields long ago decided to use Latin as the language for codified laws, theories, discoveries and basic nomenclature.
The "double negative" rule as applied to the English language, which is spoken currently in quite a few different countries and regions, each having developed their own curious usage, definitions and rules, is very likely outdated and is a remnant due to changing times and generations.
The double negative usage also may be quite differently used today depending upon which English speaking nation, which country, culture, etc. being discussed.
--Mac
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The double negative is a common feature of Afrikaans
Chris
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Hi, guys ! Latin is anything but a dead language ! Over here in Finland our YLE (The National Broadcasting Company) regularly comes up with news in latin !:) Here are some excerpts: http://yle.fi/radio1/tiede/nuntii_latini/Here you can hear the news: http://app.box.com/s/q8bmnwxs55hgkycs2xwaCheers Dani
Last edited by dani48; 10/13/13 03:26 PM.
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A language is considered to be "dead" when there is no longer any nation or large cultural group using that language in everyday communications.
--Mac
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>>>..Over here in Finland our YLE (The National Broadcasting Company)regularly comes up with news in latin !:) ...>>>
Why would they do that? Do y'all Finns speak or study Latin as a regular thing? Who is the Latin news intended for?
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Hi, Guys !
We are a weird people yes (chuckle) !
Latin is quite pop here and the radio
estimates there are more than 10.000 people
listening to the news !:))
It is quite common to read latin in school
over here ! ....If you ask why.....Latin is
integrated in most european languages and
it is almost mandatory for those who study
medicine......so, why not ?
...so much for a dead language (lol) !!
Cheers
Dani
Last edited by dani48; 10/14/13 04:12 AM.
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I studied Latin starting in the 6th grade.
"Classical Latin" they called it, with a different pronounciation ruleset, but Latin nonetheless.
By the 12th grade, was also having to study the Greek.
Knowing the basics of those two languages makes it much easier to understand English words, whose prefixes and suffixes are often based on the Latin or the Greek.
It also is a huge help in knowing how to spell various English words, as well as their roots in definitions, etc.
Look, it is not Mac who coined the term, "dead language" to describe the Latin, this was done by scholars who lived long before I was even a gleam in me wee father's eye, both the Legal and the Scientific communities embraced the Latin for their definitions and terms for that stated reason.
You have a radio show where Latin is used, but that does not equate to the same given situation, for the country you live in does not use Latin as its core language in every day speaking.
--Mac
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Hi, Mac !
I won´t argue on this topic, just wanted to
bring you some information that you could
not possibly have known ! I also wanted to
bring forward my opinion that latin in fact
is very alive today - it has to be, as they have to
invent new words to be able to follow
their time ! Mac, dear friend, I never said you
coined the expression that latin is a dead
language, but I think I surprised everyone
with my intervention (Chuckle) !!:))
I also read latin in school for three years
if I do remember right (I also read ancient greek or koine
as it is called) and I must honestly say that my
knowledge of latin has been most useful in
learning other european languages. F.i. I am presently
studying spanish ! An example: If I know that nature
is natura in latin, I immediately know it is feminine also
in german Die Natur or in spanish La Naturalesa !!
Cheers
Dani
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My wife got a 100% on her final high school Latin regents exam. NY state was confused (what else is new) as no one had ever gotten a 100% before! There were only places for 2 digits!
She used to be fluent in Latin, German and English but now a few years later (ha-ha) she is fluent in English only. I am fluent in no language so I guess it is true that opposites attract.
I think my wife has started to show the first signs of dementia.
She said she can't remember what she ever saw in me!
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Hi, Mac !
I won´t argue on this topic, just wanted to
bring you some information that you could
not possibly have known !
Please explain how you could come to the conclusion that this piece of information, which is basically available in the public domain, is information that I "could not possibly have known". --Mac
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My guitar playing is not bad, and it is not without originality. But, the part that is not bad is unoriginal, and the part that is not without originality is bad.
Huh?
Aleck
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Hello my dear Mac !
I couldn´t ! I just assumed
that the possibility of you
being aware of the high interest
in latin over in a godforgiven place
like my country was quite small ! If you
knew, you would not have used
the term dead language !:) (LOL)
Cheers
Dani
Last edited by dani48; 10/14/13 12:13 PM.
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Again: The usage of Latin in one radio show is NOT the equivalent of having a population that uses Latin in everyday speech and communications.
"Latin is a dead language. No one speaks Latin as his native language, and this has been the case for more than a millennium." --Terrence Moore
There has, however, been a renewed interest in the teaching of Latin in some of the schools here in the US. This is in direct consequence of having raised a generation of lawyers, scientists and academia without henefit of knowing those all-important terms, which are still used in jurisprudence and science terminologies.
Sed nihil ad infinitum vivit.
--Mac
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Hi, Mac !
I won´t argue on this topic, just wanted to
bring you some information that you could
not possibly have known !
Please explain how you could come to the conclusion that this piece of information, which is basically available in the public domain, is information that I "could not possibly have known". --Mac Based on Dani's later reply, I believe that here we have a misunderstanding simply due to the placement of the word 'not' - an easy mistake for someone who possibly does not speak or write English as a first language. Simply move the word 'not' from it's position in the quote above, to following the word 'possibly' and it appears to me that was Dani's intention. For example only: Hi, Mac !
I won´t argue on this topic, just wanted to
bring you some information that you could possibly not have known ! I bring this up simply because I find this thread to be fascinating as a person who speaks English as a first language, German as a 2nd language, Swedish as a 3rd, and Spanish as a very distant 4th language. The simple placement of a single 3-letter word in the sentence changes the feeling of the sentence from what could be considered an insult, to an honest, malice-free observation. German is the only one of the latter 3 that I can actually join in conversation with some degree of fluency. Swedish, I can read and write if I have a good dictionary available, and Spanish was terminally frustrating to me to attempt to learn - though I can read and pronounce it so the listener can comprehend, please do not ask me to translate it!
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Hi, Rockstar
Thank you for coming to my rescue !
You are absolutely right. My intention
was never to insult anybody, just
bring to everybody´s knowledge that
IMO latin cannot be considered a dead
language in a country where they
have regular news in latin and the
language is in daily use and developing
all the time ! sic !
I stick to my opinion respecting all
others´ as well !:))
Cheers
Dani
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