|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,250
Veteran
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,250 |
Hi All
as one with no formal musical knowledge I have come across this a few times but what is it?
Is it just another way of playing B7 or are there specifics or nuances to the chord as to where it can be placed?
cheers
ian
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,608
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,608 |
A 7alt chord has neither a natural fifth nor a natural ninth.
It does have a dominant seventh, but the alterations (hence the name, alt) to the fifth and ninth give it an entirely different sound than a straight seventh chord. Examples could include any or all of b5, #5, b9 and/or #9.
You see 7alt all the time in jazz fakebooks. For a jazz chart, writing 7alt is quicker and easier to read than, say, 7(#5 b9). It also gives the pianist or guitarist flexibility to use some creativity choosing which combination to play. Soloists, too. If I were stuck on a desert island with only one chord to jam over, 7alt is probably the one I would pick. It's a fun chord.
BIAB supports 7alt. You can write B7alt and it will work fine.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
Hi All
Is it just another way of playing B7 or are there specifics or nuances to the chord as to where it can be placed?
cheers
ian Matt's explained the rest, I'll just add that you are on the right track with the idea of replacing a B7 with Balt, good idea to start out by replacing "turnaround chord" which is usually going to be the V7 chord of the key, right before it returna to the root, often at the end of a chorus and heading back to the beginning. The Tension likely won't be heard or realized until you have mastered hearing the Tritone Subs. --Mac
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 479
Journeyman
|
|
Journeyman
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 479 |
Hi Matt - I think we did this before - let's do it again. There are four possible alt chords - 7b5b9, 7b5#9, 7#5b9, 7#5#9. So in my mind the alt chord is not a specific chord, but a family of chords. So I'm always wondering when I see it which of the four is being specified.
I made a BIAB song with the above four chords in C, plus C Alt, plus C Maj using PNOSIMP4 style. BIAB correctly played all, and for C Alt played a C7#5#9. So, that suggests how BIAB interprets C Alt.
So when one sees C Alt in sheet music (or fake book), how does one know what the composer/arranger had in mind, I ask. Don't say "It's up to me".
Interestingly, I just tried these chords out in PGMusic's Piano Chord Dictionary and it plays C Alt as - C E Gb G# Bb Db D#, or a composite of both # and b 5 and 9.
kelso
Dell Desktop XPS 8100 W10 HomePrem/64 / Core i5 760 (quad, 2.8GHz) / 8GB DDR3 / 1 TB SATA / ViewSonic VG2428wm / EMU1616 PCI / Event ASP6 Active Monitors / BIAB 2019 64 bit (609) / Cakewalk
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
Hi Matt - I think we did this before - let's do it again. There are four possible alt chords - 7b5b9, 7b5#9, 7#5b9, 7#5#9. So in my mind the alt chord is not a specific chord, but a family of chords. So I'm always wondering when I see it which of the four is being specified. Don't think of this situation as being "specified" as to one particular chord out of the four. Think of it as a "your choice" situation, governed always by the boundaries of good musical taste. (Doesn't clash with a Melody note, doesn't clash with what others may be playing, etc.) What's neat about them is that one rhythm player could pick any one out of the four and another, at the same time, could pick one of the other three possibilities left, and most often there won't be a harmonic clash, just more added Tension heading towards the next chord or set of chords, which are the Release of that Tension. Alt chords want to go "home". --Mac
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,608
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,608 |
Kelso, Mac described very well how it works in comping. As far as your question about what the composer had in mind, I can only answer for myself:
When I compose, I generally "over-write" at first, specifying every nuance of a chord so it will be precisely the way I want it. Then I step back to see if I could instead use alt or something simpler. Usually I can, unless there is a particular melody note that requires a specific voicing without clashing, as Mac mentioned.
Otherwise, yes, it's up to you.
I don't play piano or guitar, so I try to adapt to the preferences of whomever I'm writing for. Some prefer I write the specific chord voicing, but most do not. They would rather see just a seventh chord, and they will decide whether to add the ninth, thirteenth, sharp eleven, vary the ninth or fifth, etc. I just trust to their skill and experience and get pleasantly surprised.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,250
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,250 |
Hi guys
thank you all for the great info. Though I dont understand the technical aspects of it, I can see how it works.
And there was I, a poor rock band musician, thinking it meant "B7 Alternative" and me thinking " to what"? ;¬)
cheers
ian
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 392
Journeyman
|
|
Journeyman
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 392 |
Hi guys
thank you all for the great info. Though I dont understand the technical aspects of it, I can see how it works.
And there was I, a poor rock band musician, thinking it meant "B7 Alternative" and me thinking " to what"? ;¬)
cheers
ian HA! I too was a poor rock band musician...not long after the dawn of Rock 7& Roll. A time when, if you knew 3 chords, you could play every Rock & Roll song out there. Then the 1, 6m, 4, 5 thing came down the pike so I had to add a 4th chord. Then the Beatles came along and ruined my career! Ab7sus??? Dbmaj7/F???? SERIOUSLY??? (-: Jim
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 84
Enthusiast
|
|
Enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 84 |
A rocker? If you play guitar, you surely know the "Jimi Hendrix Chord" (Big use in Purple Haze, but I think Wes Montgomery beat Jimi by about a decade with this chord  .) It's an E7#9 but Jimi (and Wes) don't play the 5, so it's a perfectly fine alt chord. E-G#-D-G. You are using the inside 4 strings with the E on the 7th fret. My go-to alt chord!
Last edited by SmoothJohn; 10/23/13 06:28 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 216
Apprentice
|
|
Apprentice
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 216 |
Everything said sounds correct to me.
To add to the discussion:
An alt chord is primarily used to create tension. The dominant chord when it has a dominant function already creates tension and makes ones ear expect and/or enjoy the resolution (generally to a chord a fifth below and often to the tonic). Adding the altered notes to a dominant 7 chord increases the tension and the subsequent sense of resolution.
One way of thinking of it is that the altered chord is made up from the notes of the altered scale (the altered scale also creates tension). The altered scale is made up of the:
1 b2 b3 nat3 b5 #5 b7, or another way and probably better way to write that is by using these enharmonic equivilents:
1 b9 #9 3 b5 #5 b7
If you start with the 1 3 b7 for your dominant chord, you can then add any one of those other notes or more than one of those other notes to create an alt chord.
C7b9 C7#9 C7b5 C7#5 C7#5#9 etc. All of those are altered dominants derived from the altered scale.
And a great choice of a scale to play over any on those dominant altered chords is the, you guessed it, the altered scale. In the case of those C7alt chords listed above.
1 b9 #9 3 b5 #5 b7 or C Db D# E Gb G# Bb
Also, the altered scale is the seventh mode of the melodic minor. In other words the C altered scale is the same group of notes as the Db melodic minor scale.
(Perhaps more than most would want to read or as Zappa would say, "Shut up and play your guitar")
Last edited by Frankp; 10/24/13 08:23 AM. Reason: correct an error, 7 changed to b7
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
That is really good teaching, Frankp!
--Mac
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Last Chance! The Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac® Special Ends Today (May 31, 2026) at 11:59pm PDT!
Time really is running out! Save up to 50% on Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac® upgrades and receive a FREE Bonus PAK—only when you order by 11:59 PM PDT today!
We've added many major new features and new content in a redesigned Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
Version 2026 introduces a modernized GUI redesign across the program, with updated toolbars, refreshed windows, smoother workflows, and a new Dark Mode option. There’s also a new side toolbar for quicker access to commonly used windows, and the new Multi-View feature lets you arrange multiple windows as layered panels without overlap, making it easier to customize your workspace.
Another exciting new addition is the amazing new AI-Notes feature, which can transcribe polyphonic audio into MIDI. View the results in notation or play them back as MIDI, and choose whether to transcribe an entire track or transcribe specific parts like drums, bass, guitars/piano, or vocals. There's over 100 new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®.
There's an amazing collection of new content too, including 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two RealDrums Stems sets, and much more!
Upgrade your Band-in-a-Box for Mac® to save up to 50% on most Band-in-a-Box® 2026 upgrade packages!
Plus, when you order your Band-in-a-Box® 2026 Mac upgrade during our special, you'll receive a Free Bonus PAK of exciting new add-ons.
If you need any help deciding which package is the best option for you, just let us know. We are here to help!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 Mac Special Offers Extended Until May 31st!
Good news- we've extended our Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac® special offers until May 31, 2026!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 is packed with major new features, enhancements, and an incredible lineup of new content! The program now sports a sleek, modern GUI redesign across the entire interface, including updated toolbars, refreshed windows, smoother workflows, a new dark mode option, and more. The brand-new side toolbar provides quicker access to key windows, while the new Multi-View feature lets you arrange multiple windows as layered panels without overlap, creating a flexible, clutter-free workspace. We have an amazing new “AI-Notes” feature. This transcribes polyphonic audio into MIDI so you can view it in notation or play it back as MIDI. You can transcribe an entire track (all pitched instruments and drums) or focus on individual parts like drums, bass, guitars/piano, or vocals. There's an amazing collection of new content too, including 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two RealDrums Stems sets, and much more!
There are over 100 new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®.
When you order purchase Band-in-a-Box® 2026 before 11:59 PM PDT on May 31st, you'll also receive a Free Bonus PAK packed with exciting new add-ons.
Check out the Band-in-a-Box® for Mac packages page to find the best package for you.
Holiday Weekend Hours
It's Victoria Day Long Weekend in Canada. Our Customer Service hours are:
Saturday, May 16: Closed
Sunday, May 17: Closed
Monday, May 18: 8:00am - 4:00pm
Regular hours resume Tuesday, May 19th!
Today's the Last Day of the Band-in-a-Box 2026® for Mac Special!
Order before 11:59pm PDT today (May 15, 2026) to save up to 50% off your Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac® upgrade and receive a FREE Bonus PAK loaded with great new Add-ons to use with this new version!
Don't wait - order today!
Check out all the new features in the redesigned Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac - Special Offers End at 11:59pm PDT on Friday, May 15th, 2026!
Order before 11:59pm PDT on Friday, May 15th and SAVE up to 50% on most Band-in-a-Box® version 2026 for Mac Upgrade packages... and that's not all! With your version 2026 for Mac purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks... that's 222 NEW RealTracks available with version Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac!
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac® today for as little as $49! Check out the Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all available purchase options.
Learn more about the Free Bonus PAK and 49-PAK here.
If you have any questions about which package is the best option for you, just let us know. We're here to help!
202 New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2026!
With Band-in-a-Box® 2026, we've released 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 468-488) in a variety of genres—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Funk & World (Sets 468-475):
Our new jazz, funk & blues RealTracks include a groovin’ collection of RealTracks and RealDrums! These include more requested “soul jazz” RealTracks featuring artists Neil Swainson (bass), Charles Treadway (organ), Brent Mason (guitar), and Wes Little (drums). There are new “smooth jazz” styles (4), which include a RealTracks first: muted trumpet, as well as slick new smooth jazz brushes options for drums. Blues lovers will be thrilled—there are more “classic acoustic blues” styles, including guitar (5), bass (4), and drums (10) with blues master Colin Linden, featuring understated and tasty background acoustic soloing, plus brushes drums and acoustic bass. There are also new electric blues RealTracks, including electric blues with PG favorite Johnny Hiland (3) and soulful electric slide guitar from Colin Linden (4). If you love funk & gospel, there are great new options this year, including gospel organ (3) from Charles Treadway, as well as new funk, tango, and rock ’n’ roll drums (3) and bass (1). And for big, bold arrangements, we have uptempo soul horns (4) featuring a three-part hip horn section with options for a full mix or stems of each individual horn — plus an accompanying rhythm section (4) of drums, bass, guitar, and electric piano!
Rock & Pop (Sets 476–482):
Our new rock & pop RealTracks bring a powerful mix of requested favorites, fresh genres, and modern chart-inspired styles! We have more of our popular “Producer Layered Acoustic Guitars (15)” featuring Band-in-a-Box favorite Brent Mason. We’ve continued our much-requested disco styles (10), and added new Celtic guitar (5) with a more basic, accessible approach than our previous Drop-D or DADGAD offerings. There are also highly requested yacht rock styles (17), inspired by the smooth, polished soft-rock sound of the late ’70s and early ’80s — laid-back grooves, silky electric pianos, warm textures, elegant harmonic movement, and pristine production aesthetics. Fans of heavier styles will love our new glam metal (13), capturing the flashy, high-energy sound of ’80s arena-ready guitar rock. We also have a set of rootsy modern-folk rock (18), with a warm, organic sound combining contemporary folk textures and driving acoustic strumming. And we’ve added lots of new modern pop styles (16) — the kinds of sounds you’re hearing on the radio today, featuring exciting new drums, synths, and cutting-edge RealTracks arrangements.
Country, & Americana (Sets 483–488):
Our new country & Americana RealTracks deliver a rich collection of acoustic, electric, and roots-inspired styles! We have new country pop (9) with legendary guitarist Brent Mason. There is also a potpourri (14) of bouzouki, guitars, banjo, and more, perfect for adding texture and character to contemporary acoustic arrangements. We’ve added funky country guitar (5) with PG favorite Brent Mason, along with classic pedal steel styles (5) featuring steel great Doug Jernigan. There are more country songwriter styles (8) that provide intimate, rootsy foundations for storytelling and modern Americana writing. Finally, we have “background soloing” acoustic guitar (12) with Brent Mason — simpler, but still very tasty acoustic lines designed to sit beautifully behind vocals or act as a subtle standalone solo part.
Check out all the 202 new RealTracks (in sets 468-488)!
And, if you are looking for more, the 2026 49-PAK (for $49) includes an impressive collection of 20 bonus RealTracks, featuring exciting and inspiring additions to add to your RealTracks library. You'll get new country-rhythm guitar styles from PG Music favorites Johnny Hiland and Brent Mason, along with modern-pop grooves that capture today’s radio-ready sound! There are also new indie-folk styles with guitar, bass, 6-string bass used as a high-chording instrument, acoustic guitar, and banjo. Plus, dedicated "cymbal fills" RealDrums provide an added layer that work very well with low-key folky styles with other percussion.
The 2026 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2026 49-PAK!
2026 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
With your version 2026 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons for FREE! Or upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2026 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 27 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 25 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 12 new RealStyles.
- MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
- Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
- Playable RealTracks Set 5
- RealDrums Stems Set 9: Cool Brushes
- SynthMaster Sounds Set 1 (with audio demos)
- iOS Android Band-in-a-Box® App
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyle.
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- MIDI Styles Set 93: Look Ma! More MIDI 16: SynthMaster
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
- Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
- RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
- SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
Learn more about the Bonus PAK and 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums57
Topics86,436
Posts805,087
Members40,121
| |
Most Online64,515
Apr 8th, 2026
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean