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Lenovo YOGA 900 Window s 10 Home 64bit M4 pro Mac mini 1tb HD 24GB mem casio wk7500 presonus audiobox i2 usb interface
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I believe the biblical term is, "apostacy"... Look it up. --Mac 
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I hope this doesn't degenerate into what it could, and I probably should address this in a PM, but Mac, I don't see how this fits the definition. Remember Jesus' first miracle.
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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I knew you'd be along soon here, brother Richard, and you did not disappoint.
And I would reference you to Proverbs, among other chapters, regarding the admonitions against the drinking of wine, beer and "strong drink". I recall something about wine being a mocker and beer being a brawler, for one thing.
Some biblical historians and archeologists have made the case that the ancient Hebrew wedding wines were more like a mildly alcoholic grape juice than strong wine, but I do take into account what the wedding guests had to say regarding Jesus' first miracle as well.
But to me the bottom line is that this miracle took place at a wedding reception and not in the temple, eh?
It is interesting to me that there are so many complaining about deaths due to war, violence, guns, diseases, yet the same sources of complaint are remarkably silent as concerns death and disease due to alcohol abuse. Which, incidentally, statistically dwarfs ALL gun violence combined. Just sayin'...
--Mac
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All points well taken, Mac, as well as the admonition not to do "what would cause your brother to stumble." However, the OP's story is not new. Before they were thrown out of England by Henry VIII, Catholics used to celebrate "church ales"--on Saturdays.
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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As for me, I'd have a bit of a problem trying to stay on the narrow path,with a few pints, but That's just me.
A lot of churches seem to thing that the simple Salvation through Christ is boring and old school needing a facelift.
Ask my Boss, He'll tell you what works for Him.
Wyndham
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I see that they have a 2 cup limit.
I prefer the "new wine (Ac, 2:13)."
Don S.
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It would take more than 2 beers to get me listen to a preacher! Now if they would remove the 2 beer limit, eliminate the preacher, add hot wings and strippers, … then I’d gladly go to church at the beer joint. 
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I'm crushed.  Don S.
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Bob chimed in a bit late by my reckoning, but I did know we'd be hearing from him here for some reason. I hear tell that brother Bob's two favorite brands are Free and Free Lite...  --Mac
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Bob chimed in a bit late by my reckoning, but I did know we'd be hearing from him here for some reason. I hear tell that brother Bob's two favorite brands are Free and Free Lite... --Mac That's cause you're psychic Mac. I'm surprised you forgot that my brand is Bud Select since we talked about it on the phone just a week or two ago! I couldn’t resist the joke. I actually don’t have a problem with adults practicing whatever their chosen brand of mythology/religion happens to be. What I do have a problem with is fundamentalists who insist on taking their religious texts literally and reject any type of science that may differ from their narrow minded views. It’s nothing new. Religion has always considered science and any other type of knowledge to be an enemy to their views since science/knowledge encourages people to think instead of listening solely to the preacher/priest. Galileo got to enjoy house arrest for life because he had the audacity to say that the Earth wasn’t the center of the universe. Galileo's championing of heliocentrism was controversial within his lifetime, when most subscribed to either geocentrism or the Tychonic system. He met with opposition from astronomers, who doubted heliocentrism due to the absence of an observed stellar parallax. The matter was investigated by the Roman Inquisition in 1615, and they concluded that it could be supported as only a possibility, not an established fact. Galileo later defended his views in Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems, which appeared to attack Pope Urban VIII and thus alienated him and the Jesuits, who had both supported Galileo up until this point. He was tried by the Inquisition, found "vehemently suspect of heresy", forced to recant, and spent the rest of his life under house arrest. It was while Galileo was under house arrest that he wrote one of his finest works, Two New Sciences, in which he summarised the work he had done some forty years earlier, on the two sciences now called kinematics and strength of materials. What’s really sad today is that fundamentalists would still rather have their children grow up in fear and ignorance just so the parents can perpetuate their mythology. Who knows how many generations of would be scientists, biologists, geologists, physicists, etc. have been lost to a fear of knowledge and chosen to listen to the dogma because they were taught to fear a jealous and vengeful god who would punish them for thinking and asking questions. It’s not a coincidence that the forbidden fruit was on the “Tree of Knowledge”!
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"It is not good to eat much honey;" (Proverbs 25:27)
Keith
2025 Audiophile Windows 11 RYZEN THREADRIPPER 3960X 4.5GHZ 128 GB RAM 2 Nvidia RTX 3090s, Vegas,Acid,SoundForge,Izotope Production,Melodyne Studio,SONAR,3 Raven Mtis
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Not to stir the pot or anything... but, by sheer coincidence, I was finishing up a mix on a song about this very thing when this thread was posted.
Hey! I wonder if I gave them the idea! HA!
It is posted in the Showcase if anyone is interested...
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What I do have a problem with is fundamentalists who insist on taking their religious texts literally and reject any type of science that may differ from their narrow minded views.
Narrow minded views are not limited to just that particular subset, my friend. Matter of fact, it could be said that your viewpoint emanates from the same place, if you are willing to think fairly about it. It’s nothing new. Religion has always considered science and any other type of knowledge to be an enemy to their views since science/knowledge encourages people to think instead of listening solely to the preacher/priest. Galileo got to enjoy house arrest for life because he had the audacity to say that the Earth wasn’t the center of the universe. Always the Galileo citing comes up. ONE example, perpetrated by the Pope of the era, Roman Catholic, not exactly the same doctrine as that of the Protestant Fundamentalist, but let's not get mired down with facts when pursuing an agenda, eh? Galileo expressly said that the Bible cannot err, and saw his system as an alternate interpretation of the biblical texts. Outside of Galileo, history gives us Nicholas Copernicus, Sir Francis Bacon, Johannes Kepler, Rene Descartes, Blaise Pascal, Isaac Newton, Robert Boyle, Michael Faraday, Gregor Mendel, William Thomson Kelvin, Max Planck and Albert Einstein, all of them expressed their belief in the judeo-christian God in writing, all of them certainly known as scientists, all of them contributed in no uncertain terms to the body of scientific knowledge. source: http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/sciencefaith.html I search for Truth. Nothing more, nothing less. --Mac
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The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this. These subtilised interpretations are highly manifold according to their nature and have almost nothing to do with the original text. For me the Jewish religion like all other religions is an incarnation of the most childish superstitions. And the Jewish people to whom I gladly belong and with whose mentality I have a deep affinity have no different quality for me than all other people. As far as my experience goes, they are also no better than other human groups, although they are protected from the worst cancers by a lack of power. Otherwise I cannot see anything 'chosen' about them. --- Albert Einstein
Keith
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To believe means to recognize as a truth, and the knowledge of nature, continually advancing on incontestably safe tracks, has made it utterly impossible for a person possessing some training in natural science to recognize as founded on truth the many reports of extraordinary contradicting the laws of nature, of miracles which are still commonly regarded as essential supports and confirmations of religious doctrines, and which formerly used to be accepted as facts pure and simple, without doubt or criticism. The belief in miracles must retreat step by step before relentlessly and reliably progressing science and we cannot doubt that sooner or later it must vanish completely. -- M Planck
Although I have always been deeply religious, I do not believe in a personal God let alone a Christian God. -- M Planck (approximately 5 months before his death)
Keith
2025 Audiophile Windows 11 RYZEN THREADRIPPER 3960X 4.5GHZ 128 GB RAM 2 Nvidia RTX 3090s, Vegas,Acid,SoundForge,Izotope Production,Melodyne Studio,SONAR,3 Raven Mtis
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I wish you'd cite your sources, Keith.
--Mac
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Mac, When I used the term “narrow minded” to describe fundamentalists, I wasn’t saying it as an insult. I was being descriptive of their belief system. In short, the only way is their way with biblical inerrancy and literal interpretation, … or its eternal damnation, fiery torment, weeping and gnashing of your teeth while the worms eat your flesh. After all, … god is love! As you well know, many Christian groups embrace faith and science. All it takes is a willingness to accept a metaphorical interpretation of scripture. Even Pat Robertson came out last Nov. in support of evolution and scientific views of the creation of the universe. Personally, I’m agnostic with strong atheistic leanings. If there is a god, then I believe that he/she/it won’t even vaguely resemble the god portrayed by ANY religion. I obviously could be very wrong about that, but that’s what I believe. When my son was ready to start kindergarten I started asking around for recommendations on private schools because I wanted to protect him from all of the drugs, sex in a broom closet and gangs that are so prevalent in public schools. Two schools kept coming up, one Protestant and one Catholic. Since I was Protestant at the time, I focused my inquiries on that one. I asked people who were sending their kids to this school about the science program and I was assured it was based on science and not creationism. I went in to meet with the preacher/dean and asked him specifically about the science program and he looked me in the eye and assured me it was based on science. I believed the lying sack of sh*t. Unfortunately, I didn’t discover that he was a lying sack of sh*t until my son was a freshman in high school. I was out of town for work 4 days a week and was only home on the weekends. They didn’t give homework on the weekends so I never got to help my son with homework or I would have discovered they were using the Bible as a science book. My son came to me during his freshman year and begged me to get him out of there. He told me in detail about all the BS they’d been feeding him and I was stunned and furious. I felt betrayed by the school and the preacher. I was angry with myself for allowing my son to be subjected to this ludicrous indoctrination. I asked him why he didn’t tell me sooner and he said he thought I knew and that I wanted him to be taught creationism. I started to go to the school to see the preacher but I knew if did, the preacher would have ended up in the hospital and I would have ended up in jail. First moral of the tale, … don’t believe anything a preacher says. (I have lots of reasons for this besides the dean at the school). Second moral of the tale, … don’t send your child to a Christian school unless you want them to become atheists. My son became one a few years before I did.
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In a letter to Beatrice Frohlich, 17 December 1952 Einstein stated, "The idea of a personal God is quite alien to me and seems even naïve."
Calaprice, Alice (2000). The Expanded Quotable Einstein. Princeton: Princeton University Press, p. 217. Einstein Archives 59-797
----------------
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this. These subtilised interpretations are highly manifold according to their nature and have almost nothing to do with the original text."
James Randerson (13 May 2008). "Childish superstition: Einstein's letter makes view of religion relatively clear". The Guardian.
"What he wrote". The Guardian. 13 May 2008.
"Einstein letter calls Bible ‘pretty childish’". NBCNews. Associated Press. 13 May 2008.
"Einstein Letter: Belief In God "Childish," Jews Not Chosen People". The Huffington Post. 21 May 2008.
Calaprice, Alice (2011). The Ultimate Quotable Einstein. Princeton, New Jersey: Princeton University Press, p. 342.
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"First moral of the tale, … don’t believe anything a preacher says. (I have lots of reasons for this besides the dean at the school)."
So, if one preacher lied to you, they all do? Aren't you being a bit irrational, Bob?
Don S.
Last edited by Curmudgeon; 11/04/13 01:28 PM.
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