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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jul 2000
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I can't tell from the announcemnt if PG Music has made any changes to the notation portion of BIAB.
There have been many posts about this outdated part of the program, which essentially hasn't had any changes since Fake Book was introduced which was probably 10 years ago.
I am not talking about colour coding bar changes, or adding '/'. I am talking about things like the length of a printed bar being dependent on the number of notes, or the number and length of the lyrics. Or perhaps an interface to a piece of notation software (Music XML).
It's nice to see more Real Tracks, Real Drums and other stuff. And I am happy to see a new GUI, but it looks like, for another year, the notation has been left behind again.
Please tell me I am wrong
BIAB for Windows Version 2019 (643)
Windows 10 (1909)
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Dave,
As far as I can see, there are no noticeable changes to the notation side of things. Because of the introduction of the vocaloid, Sinsy, there has been a limited introduction of XML. (Matt Finley mentioned this in another thread.) That bodes well for the future.
When I need to have more sophisticated scores than BIAB can produce, I use MuseScore (freeware). It's excellent! Have you ever tried it?
Regards,
Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2026
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Nov 2005
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The upper half of the main screen and the chord sheet has been given a face lift and reorganized - much for the better. Beyond that it appears there are no changes in the menu system or any other windows or dialogs - except to accommodate 2014 changes.
kelso
Dell Desktop XPS 8100 W10 HomePrem/64 / Core i5 760 (quad, 2.8GHz) / 8GB DDR3 / 1 TB SATA / ViewSonic VG2428wm / EMU1616 PCI / Event ASP6 Active Monitors / BIAB 2019 64 bit (609) / Cakewalk
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 647
Journeyman
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OP
Journeyman
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 647 |
I tried MuseScore but wasn't too impressed - i guess you get what you pay for.
I was kinda hoping PG Music would provide an interface to Printmusic (from Finale, I think) since they mention it in their 3rd party software. I would gladly pay the $100 for a full notation product if the interface was clean and transparent.
It needs to carry over chord letters, melody (or soloist),lyrics, and hopefully the structure of the notation, such as repeats, DSalCoda, etc. There is no need to transfer any of the generated music.
ah well, maybe next time
BIAB for Windows Version 2019 (643)
Windows 10 (1909)
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Yes, we can continue to encourage development in this area. As Noel mentioned, BIAB does now have a limited Music XML output, to the Sinsy online vocal synth. Surprisingly, MuseScore did a better job interpreting the XML from BIAB than did Sibelius. My experiments in several other programs have shown that Music XML files are not always generated nor interpreted correctly, so implementing this is more difficult than first appears.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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I think there are two main questions when implementing MusicXML output: layout and playback. When creating MusicXML, you can specify exact details of music layout, or leave that up to the rendering program to determine. The results will depend on how well the rendering program renders by default, or how much it honors the layout. The downside is that how well the rendering program interprets "raw" MusicXML is a crapshoot, which is what Matt is probably seeing. Hey, they can't all be Lilypond. And although BiaB does a pretty good job "humanizing" the playback, not including that information wouldn't be a great loss for me, either. It would certainly be nice to have, but for playback - that's what MIDI is for.
-- David Cuny My virtual singer development blogVocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?BiaB 2025 | Windows 11 | Reaper | Way too many VSTis.
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I tried MuseScore but wasn't too impressed - i guess you get what you pay for.
That may have been some time ago. If it was, I recommend downloading the latest version of MuseScore and trying it out again. While BB doesn't send Music XML, MuseScore can open any BB file complete with the chords. I also use Sibelius for notation, but keep MuseScore handy as well, just for that purpose and a few other things from time to time. Band in a Box file, open in MuseScore, export as XML. Click here to see how easy it is. And Git-R-Done. --Mac
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David, thanks for the link to Lilypond.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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What a Music Sheet looks like and actual playback of music are actually two entirely different things.
It is the Human Abilities Factor. coupled firmly with the rulesets of written note interpretation, which can take years to learn, actually, that enables us to see a string of 8th notes and interpret how they really should be played, nuanced, timing, feel, etc.
Music Notation by itself simply does not contain that kind of information.
Which is why the computer, when handed the same data, will often play back something that sounds, well, not human.
I use the MIDI playback capabilities inside my Notation Softwares simply for doublechecking that there aren't any clams or other mistakes. Saves ink and paper.
Its not there to entertain me.
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I agree. However, I need a good quality fakebook representation. I only use the base and drums under normal conditions to play against, but sometimes it's nice to audition a new style against one of your favourite song. This is the strength of BIAB. You provide a melody and a set of chords and you get MUSIC. Change the style and things change, usually for the better.
However, the same music notation is the basis for all of the versions.
BIAB's notation provides a workable notation. It is pretty simple compared to other software packages, which is why, I am sure that you use Sibelius. It simply provides a better representation of the notes.
I really don't want to invest in another piece of software, and I certainly don't want to keep multiple copies of a piece of music. I would like to have BIAB either print the music, or be able to transfer it seamlessly to a product that can do a better job.
BIAB for Windows Version 2019 (643)
Windows 10 (1909)
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Hi Dave, I really like MuseScore. It just takes a little getting used to because it's different. If you're curious, below is a leadsheet for a song I wrote. link to "Dancing And Dreaming" leadsheetAlso, there are some great tutorials on Youtube to show you how it works. The one below is the first of "MuseScore in 10 easy steps" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEbs0cii4VYAll the best, Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2026
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What a Music Sheet looks like and actual playback of music are actually two entirely different things. I guess I wasn't being clear - I was referring to MusicXML, and how completely BiaB may (or may not) implement it. MusicXML supports multiple levels of information. At the basic level, you've got something resembling an event list of notes. This can also include very detailed layout information, such as page layout, element positioning, and so on. The rendering program doesn't have to honor that information, but it should. Additionally, there's an optional playback information - essentially MIDI information. So visual representation and playback don't have to match, which is exactly the point you were making. This is a capability built into MusicXML. So what I was trying to get to was that while it would be great if BiaB were to implement as much of the MusicXML standard as possible, even a minimal implementation of MusicXML (without layout and playback information) would be great. Having said that, I think you'll grant that other people might find value in having their notation programs play back music notation accurately as possible. While this will always be less optimal than a good human performance, the sad reality is that not all of us are good performers. For some of us, a performance by the computer is going to be the only one we'll get for our compositions.
-- David Cuny My virtual singer development blogVocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?BiaB 2025 | Windows 11 | Reaper | Way too many VSTis.
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David, thanks for the link to Lilypond. Matt, you're welcome. Lilypond is a very interesting bit of software. The Lilypond coders don't just want to get it right, they want it to be beautiful as well. And they do an amazingly good job. You might have a look at Frescobaldi, which is probably the best of the Lilypond editors (for those mere mortals who prefer not to use vi  ).
-- David Cuny My virtual singer development blogVocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?BiaB 2025 | Windows 11 | Reaper | Way too many VSTis.
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You might have a look at Frescobaldi, which is probably the best of the Lilypond editors (for those mere mortals who prefer not to use vi ). eh? If I remember correctly, that stands for Virtually Impossible. Don't remind me...
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
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If anyone wants to see what BIAB does do with Music XML, follow these steps:
1. Have a song with a melody.
2. Go to Notation Mode
3. Click on the button, Vocal Synth
4. Look in the folder indicated in the message for:
X:/bb/Data/SRequest/Sound.XML
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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