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I have BIAB2013 running on a harddrive and just received the UltraPlusPak running from an external drive. Should I remove BIAB2013 from the harddrive before installing or running the new one or are they independent from each other.
Thanks in advance
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They are independent.
If you want to leae 2013 where it is and run 2014 off of hard drive, it would work.
However, be careful about working in one and not finding the work in the other, that gets me almost every time when I keep the old version around.
--Mac
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So then it's probably better to get rid of the previous version.
Any other recommendation?
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If I'm going to install to C drive, I always have just installed the new BB right overtop of the old, in the same folder.
All of my own songs and work will still be in that folder, ready to run on the new BB version.
User Settings will remain, as well, so you don't have to go through all those Prefs trying to remember how to make it look and behave as you know it.
Also any Special Deal Addons you may have received in earlier versions will stay there, too.
In all these years, never lost a single song, a single thing, doing it that way.
This is the way I recommend doing it.
--Mac
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Mac,
that's sounds good to me.
Thanks a lot!
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Last year, I had been running the previous version from my hd but decided to run the RT and drums on 2013 from the usb drive. This is one of the install options in setup. I installed the program right over the old on the C drive and pointed it to the usb drive for the RTs/Drums. It freed up lots of space because once I tested it and it worked fine, I then deleted only the RTs/Drums instrument files that were already on my C drive. Works great.
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For awhile after a new version comes out, I keep the old one on a different computer, just for reference if someone asks a question about what was different, etc. After not too long, though, I can't stand to be without the new features and I upgrade the other computer too.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Sundance,
how much space will it take on the harddrive by installing it over the previous version. Are there any losses in processing speed by running biab from the usb-drive or as you described this hybrid solution (parts on hd and parts on usb) ?
sep..
Last edited by sep57u60; 12/10/13 04:03 AM.
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What you are hearing from several users here is to choose the install option to put the program on your computer's internal hard drive, then go into the program and specify that the RealTracks and RealDrums be loaded from the PG Music external drive.
The performance should be fine.
The largest component of BIAB, by a huge margin, is the RealTracks folder. Then, about 1/10 the size, the RealDrums. The rest of /bb is not so large it can't be installed to your boot drive.
I'm using an SSD drive as my boot drive with the BIAB program, and have the RealTracks and RealDrums alone on another internal drive. The performance is amazing. Plus, this leaves my PG drive as my backup, which I keep in storage. So, there are several ways to set this up that work.
Although all work together of course, I think your CPU (processing speed) is more important in the speed of regeneration of BIAB songs than your hard drive access speeds.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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...I'm using an SSD drive as my boot drive with the BIAB program, and have the RealTracks and RealDrums alone on another internal drive. The performance is amazing. Plus, this leaves my PG drive as my backup, which I keep in storage...
I ordered BIAB EverythingPak last Friday, and Monday PGM shipped it overnight via FedEx so I'll have it today. I'm impressed! I had hoped I could set it up as you have described and glad to see it can be organized that way. I have one 600GB SSD, two 3 TB internal drives, and one external 3 TB backup drive. (I also do a lot of video work). If I put the BIAB main program on the SSD drive as you have, how much space will the remaining programs take? Thanks, Wally G
Yamaha Montage 6 Roland J80, D50, Integra 7, BK-7m, FR-8X, 1967 Fender Jaguar, Fender Strat, Fender 1965 Twin Reverb reissue, Selmer Trumpet, Akai EWI, Studio One 4 My WEB Site: www.gontowski.com/music
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I have one 600GB SSD, two 3 TB internal drives, and one external 3 TB backup drive. (I also do a lot of video work).
If I put the BIAB main program on the SSD drive as you have, how much space will the remaining programs take?
Thanks,
Wally G SSD's don't like a lot of Write cycles and BiaB work writes to disk all the time (closing BB involves a Write to a critical file that is needed in order for BB to work the way it does, keep your User settings and Prefs the way you need them to be, plus there's all that Saving of your songfiles, etc.) I would recommend installing ALL of BB, including the Realtracks and Realdrums, to one of those two internal drives that are NOT SSD drives. Besides, there would be no benefit from the speed difference worth the detriment to the SSD by exposing it to more Write cycles than necessary, which will put it in an earlier-than-necessary grave. BB with all Realtracks and Realdrums won't take up hardly any space on a 3T hard drive. I recommend installing BB with only its one bb folder on one of those other drives. Don't bury it in other folders on there, first logical partition is going to be the fastest place. X:/bb --Mac
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If I put the BIAB main program on the SSD drive as you have, how much space will the remaining programs take?
Thanks,
Wally G
Wally, my /BB folder without any RealTracks or RealDrums is about 9 and a half Gigabytes. I have the audiophile version, so I'm not sure whether any of the ST2 or XT2 files, which are the ones taking up the most space, would be smaller on a non-audiophile system. To answer your question, we would need to know whether you have the audiophile or regular version. I don't have all the files for 2014 yet so I can't answer yet. As for Mac's comments, I have always been aware of this widely-distributed reasoning about SSDs and chose to disregard it. I have run BIAB and all my other application programs on my Intel SSD for two years with no difficulty, and they load amazingly quickly, as does Windows. If the drive goes down, I will just reinstall my applications. All the data is kept on another drive and backed up offsite.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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As for Mac's comments, I have always been aware of this widely-distributed reasoning about SSDs and chose to disregard it.
It is not a mere notion, fortunately, the field of electronic engineering is empirical. That means these things have been tested, in laboratory situations, which have been duplicated by others as per Scientific Method. The only detriment to doing that is that the number of Write cycles is indeed going to be limited before problems may incur. Worse Case Scenario is an SSD that can't be reclaimed. Engineering fields, we cannot guess, we cannot imply, unlike a lot of other professions, we go directly to jail when the bridge collapses, man. --Mac
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I have one 600GB SSD, two 3 TB internal drives, and one external 3 TB backup drive. (I also do a lot of video work).
If I put the BIAB main program on the SSD drive as you have, how much space will the remaining programs take?
Thanks,
Wally G SSD's don't like a lot of Write cycles and BiaB work writes to disk all the time (closing BB involves a Write to a critical file that is needed in order for BB to work the way it does, keep your User settings and Prefs the way you need them to be, plus there's all that Saving of your songfiles, etc.) I would recommend installing ALL of BB, including the Realtracks and Realdrums, to one of those two internal drives that are NOT SSD drives. Besides, there would be no benefit from the speed difference worth the detriment to the SSD by exposing it to more Write cycles than necessary, which will put it in an earlier-than-necessary grave. BB with all Realtracks and Realdrums won't take up hardly any space on a 3T hard drive. I recommend installing BB with only its one bb folder on one of those other drives. Don't bury it in other folders on there, first logical partition is going to be the fastest place. X:/bb --Mac Mac, Thanks for the feedback. I'm a little confused. In your earlier post you stated: "I'm using an SSD drive as my boot drive with the BIAB program, and have the RealTracks and RealDrums alone on another internal drive." I read this to mean that you installed the BIAB application on you boot (SSD?) drive, but with this post you state that "I would recommend installing ALL of BB, including the Realtracks and Realdrums, to one of those two internal drives that are NOT SSD drives." Normally you can put an application on the SSD without fear of too many write cycles. If you could clarify further I would appreciate it. Thanks, Wally G
Yamaha Montage 6 Roland J80, D50, Integra 7, BK-7m, FR-8X, 1967 Fender Jaguar, Fender Strat, Fender 1965 Twin Reverb reissue, Selmer Trumpet, Akai EWI, Studio One 4 My WEB Site: www.gontowski.com/music
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Wally, go back and re-read the thread, because there are viewpoints being expressed by two posters. I was the one who has all my apps on the SSD, and my data and the RealTracks and RealDrums on several different drives. It works great.
Mac recommends against doing it this way.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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I'm using an SSD drive as my boot drive with the BIAB program, and have the RealTracks and RealDrums alone on another internal drive. The performance is amazing. Plus, this leaves my PG drive as my backup, which I keep in storage. So, there are several ways to set this up that work.
And my advice to Matt is that just because a machine appears to be working when being run in a certain fashion does not mean that the machine is being used as specified by the designers. Not necessarily a bad thing, mind you, if you can afford it. After all, it was Hot Rodders who made cars run faster. Many at the expense of experiments that destoryed engines, transmissions and rearends... --Mac
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Wally, go back and re-read the thread, becuase there are viewpoints being expressed by two posters. I was the one who has all my apps on the SSD, and the RealTracks and RealDrums on a different drive. It works great.
Mac recommends against doing this.
My bad. That's why I got confused. I never went past the "M" in the name. I'm not going to take sides with either of the two great posters on this Forum, but personally I have several apps (including Sonar X3) loaded on my dedicated Audio/Video computers Solid State Drive. Although I have over a decade of experience designing power electronics for Hard Drives, I don't have any with SSD. From what I have read, you should "normally" load your OS and Applications on the SSD and everything else on HDs. I'm interested in more info about Macs concern that BiaB is a unique application that should NOT be put on an SSD because of all the writing taking place. I also have some engineering friend involved with SSD and will give them a call. Wally G
Yamaha Montage 6 Roland J80, D50, Integra 7, BK-7m, FR-8X, 1967 Fender Jaguar, Fender Strat, Fender 1965 Twin Reverb reissue, Selmer Trumpet, Akai EWI, Studio One 4 My WEB Site: www.gontowski.com/music
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If BB is installed to your SSD, and you wish to export or drag and drop huge sized WAV files, or simply Save As a .wav of .mp3 file, you should take care not to be in a hurry and put 'em on that SSD. Today's commodity 2D MLC flash has raw wear-out in the 2,000 to 3,000 write cycle range. Empirically derived from multiple testing.
The future direction of endurance is downwards (towards worse). Also - SSD designers have reported that when they have measured endurance in this classic way - the specs in recent flash generations are tighter than they used to be - with less headroom.
I have to know these things when wearing my EE design hat. That is what they pay me to know. The faster the SSD, the quicker it can wear out the memory.--Mac
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I don't think we really know yet about BIAB specifically. The number of files that BIAB updates then closes in the main /BB folder is very small, like 8, but there could be many in other folders if we researched it.
Wally, I have followed the precise advice you received, to put the OS and applications on the SSD, but no data. I have everything amply backed up, so I am willing to chance a drive failure. I run the Trim and diagnostic utility faithfully each week that tells me the SSD is still fine. The speed gain is too much to give up on my aging PC. I am not concerned because I have been building PCs for thirty years and teaching computer science for longer. In that time many hard drives have failed, and none of my new SSDs yet. I am careful where I save files.
But Mac has spoken, so you must follow his advice.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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..so I followed Matt's recommendation and installed BB on the harddrive and left the RealTracks on the external drive. I'm pretty sure that there is the option to change it when needed in the future and copy everything over and run directly from the harddrive.
Thanks a lot Matt!
sep...
Last edited by sep57u60; 12/10/13 01:33 PM.
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