Having bought a bunch of extras to enhance my songs I wonder if there is such a thing as Orchestral Strings software where you could create some strings arrangements? There are some packages out there but they seem you to require a keyboard which I don't? Does such a thing exist?
recently bought Garritan Personal Orchestra 4. you can enter songs without a keyboard but once I really get started using it I'll probably pick up something basic (and cheap!)
You can use the piano roll view or the staff view of your DAW and maybe BiaB, don’t know, and write your string parts. You can use whatever strings sounds you have now. This is a slow process but it works.
You can also have BiaB generate string parts and you can modify them in the PVR or staff view. I do this a lot using my DAW.
Over on this side of the pond you can buy a new or used keyboard with a MIDI out for $100 USD or less. These will not be velocity sensitive and/or may have small keys but they will work.
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BIAB is the best program I have found for generating string arrangements. As Mario said, they can be touched up in a variety of ways. I did just this a year ago, adapting my songs for a performance with the symphony orchestra.
Once you have the parts created and edited, then it is a different discussion about what to use to play them and create a recording.
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Are you asking about writing the notes that the strings will play? If so, use the notes that created as the 'String" parts for the existing styles.
If you are asking how to get the tone that a string section creates, look in Sampletank under "Miroslav Sounds." Apply these sounds to the notes that the styles create, as above.
Also there are new Realtracks in v2014 that use actual members of the violin family. Look in the Reatracks picker under "String Quartet."
Flatfoot sez: Call me when 'Talent-in-a-Box' is ready to ship! -- [8{>
I'm looking for a product like BIAB & EZkeys where you put the chords in to generate the strings. I'm not aware that BIAB comes with orchestral strings although I did use a cello in my last song. I now have BIAB 2014 with the free strings but they are not the smooth orchestral strings I would like to add to my songs. Plus EZkeys don't have strings either with is strange considering it would be right up their street.
What I've seen on the internet in a few places is something like Hollywood quality orchestral strings that you can arrange into your own music but looking at the screenshots looks like you would 1.need to play piano 2. use a midi keyboard to play the arrangement before applying the strings sounds.
I'm not aware of anything else that does what BB does...as far as entering chords and it plays....
There are some really fine string packages out there... look at the Native Instrument strings as well as the Garritan package..... both are fairly low cost but still sound good.
Unfortunately, unless you have a keyboard, mousing the notes into the song will be the only way. Look into BB to see if it will give you a midi track for a pad. You could then substitute a string sample and be halfway there.
Mousing takes a phenomenal amount of work and time. Although I must say, I heard a classical orchestral composition in the Sonar song forums several years back where the person posting the work claimed it was 100% entered by mouse into PRV. Even better, it had multiple tracks with the various orchestra instruments AND.... it was all done using nothing but TTS.
Pick up an inexpensive keyboard. I've seen them for sale at music stores for around $60 brand new. Playing string parts is mostly one note at a time, and generally whole notes..... so the string parts tend to be easy to play.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.
The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
. While it is true that BiaB does not have a feature called "Orchestral Strings," it does provide a number of ways to create string parts. For example, BiaB writes string parts for many of the included styles.
Have you tried all the ways that BiaB can create string parts? In what way are they not what you want?
Please explain what you have tried, and what you want to do.
Flatfoot sez: Call me when 'Talent-in-a-Box' is ready to ship! -- [8{>
Paul have you googled free orchestra midi files? There are a lot of free midi files of orchestras that you might find useful as a starting point for your music. Also google using a computer keyboard as a midi keyboard for information on this. I’m not sure if this will help but it may be what you can use.
Also again don’t overlook the fact that you can use BiaB generated string parts using better string sound sets. I have generated one string track and saved it to my DAW then I generated another string set and save that to my DAW. In my DAW I have raised or lowered octaves on selected notes or parts and/or changed parts to better fit the song. I have also written some additional parts, shorten or lengthen notes, change articulations etc.
You can do all this in the piano roll view. However for direct input you would need some kind of MIDI controller so be sure to check out the computer keyboard thing I mentioned if you can’t get a MIDI keyboard at this time.
Good luck and I hope this helped.
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Hi Paul Like Flatfoot says, are you looking for a way to create string sections with what is already delivered with BiaB, perhaps using your internal sound card, or are you looking for an external package (software or hardware synth) that BiaB can use to create 'quality sounding' Orchestral Strings?
There are several string sounds on an internal midi synth that 'sort-of' do the job. The product you referred to at sounds online will most probably give you far more realistic results, but may take a bit of input effort (I'm guessing those samples didn't just 'happen'). I don't know how compatible it is with BiaB, but note that it is dongle-protected software, so you also need to purchase an i-Lock if you don't already have one.
If this is the direction you are heading, make sure you take advice from Guitar Hacker and look at the Native Instrument strings as well as the Garritan package.
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. ... If you are asking how to get the tone that a string section creates, look in Sampletank under "Miroslav Sounds." Apply these sounds to the notes that the styles create, as above...
Hi Flatfoot, Are the Miroslav sounds you mentioned part of Sampletank 2.5 that comes with BiaB or are these a separate add-on? I couldn't find that anywhere in my setup. Is there a special trick involved? Thanks Trevor
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Wallander NotePerformer (www.noteperformer.com) is indeed amazingly good but it only works with Sibelius 6 or 7 (also Sibelius First). Alas you cannot use the sounds outside of Sibelius. However it is a fantastic piece of software and you simply write your score into Sibelius and it NotePerformer plays it back really well. It reads all the subtleties of dynamics and switching strings to pizzicato from arco etc etc brilliantly and the more detail you write into the score the better it plays back. It sounds heaps better than the supplied Sibelius sounds to my ears.
PaulH What kind of Strings arrangement do you want ? Open Strings, stopped Strings, Full Strings Orchestra, Quartet Strings Orchestra,... Even if you get the best Strings sounds of the world, you will have to write serious Strings parts : take care of the instrument ranges, apply expressions changes via MIDI controller #11, add somme fills where it applies, .... That is not for discouraging you, just to help you to define your project.
It's not that hard to create string parts in any program that supports piano roll notation.
The general rule is to move each note as little as possible. So if you've got a Cmaj7 going to an Fmaj7, first keep the common tones:
C -> C E -> E G -> B ->
Then move to the remaining notes the shortest possible distance:
C -> C E -> E G -> F B -> A
If you've got more than a stepwise movement, move to the target note in stepwise motion, making sure you arrive at the target chord on the beat. You'll need to do this now and then when the the notes creep up too far, and you have to move them down. Plus, it gives nice internal motion.
It doesn't take long to create string parts like this, and they sound pretty good. You can see an example of this here (skip past the first 60 seconds). In a lot of ways, it's easier to work from the piano notation than with music notation.
There are different ways you can use strings. If you're just after a pad, just about any string library will work - even the cheap ones - because the focus won't really be on the strings.
I've got a number of different string libraries, and they each have different purposes.
Session Strings is good for an intimate blended string sound. It's not that "big", but has a number of nice articulations. It runs under the Kontakt Player. I got it during one of the yearly half-price sales.
Miroslav Philharmonic is one of my favorite libraries for strings. It's got some lovely sounds, both solo and sections. I picked up the cut-down version during an sale, and upgraded to the full version.
Garritan Personal Orchestra is pretty affordable (used to be cheaper, grrr...) and has good string sections and solo instruments. It's an excellent library, especially since you get a full orchestra of other instruments along with it.
LA Scoring Strings First Chair is a solo strings library that runs in the Kontakt Player. I picked it up for the solo strings, but also to blend in with the string section for a more "detailed" sound. Typically, you might add a solo instrument to a string section sound.
Kirk Hunter Rock/Pop Strings is a good library with solo and string sections of various sizes, with a lot of articulations. I picked it up during a half-price sale. It's got nice sounds, but I find that I don't use it a lot.
Notice a theme here? Waiting for sales!
There are a lot of other libraries available. But I think GPO or Miroslav are both excellent choices, and fairly low cost. In particular, Miroslav has some really nice sectional sounds.
I already have Sampletank 2.5.5.b installed, and I have definitely already run the SampleTank Free Sounds Installer.
Do I presume that I find the Miroslav from the VSTi plug in? From the track list drop-down menu, I choose "Select Midi Synth or audio plug In", and I see a list of Amplitube and Hi-Q SampleTank items, including Strings Ensemble Chamber and Movie, but no Miroslav.
I think my question is "how/where do I look for 'Miroslav Philharmonik Sounds.'"
I'm also interested in the word you used "The Sampletank finder". Is that a real product or something else?
Appreciate your help
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. >>>...I already have Sampletank 2.5.5.b installed, and I have definitely already run the SampleTank Free Sounds Installer...Do I presume that I find the Miroslav from the VSTi plug in?.,..>>>>
. If you are saying that you have all the sounds that come with Sampletank 255, and yet you find no sounds lableled "Miroslav Philharmonik Sounds," then I have misspoken.
Now that I think about I am not sure how I got these particular sounds into my computer. They showed up somewhere in the propcess of starting with the BiB ST sounds and subsequently upping to ST 255. I have them in the main sampletank window, on the right, under the buttons that say "Delete" and 'Backup."
I will try again: Look in Sampletank, at the folder called "Band-in-a-Box." Then go to "Strings" and try "Chamber Strings" and "Movie Strings." Apply these sounds to the "String" parts created by BiaB.
.
Last edited by flatfoot; 12/30/1305:58 PM.
Flatfoot sez: Call me when 'Talent-in-a-Box' is ready to ship! -- [8{>
No, I think you're correct. I'm sure that Miroslav is included in the SampleTank free sounds. I can see the directory with that name once the free sounds zip file is unzipped.
I can certainly select Strings Ensemble, Chamber or Music (see 1st attachment, am I looking in the right place?)
But I cannot find the term Miroslav in BIAB, that's what I was trying to do.
The BIAB Help File shows the 2nd image, which includes Miroslav
My VSTi settings shows as per last image, below.
I'm still confused about that statement: "There are a few samples of what Miroslav can do in the Sampletank finder, listed as "Miroslav Philharmonik Sounds."" Q: Is that Sampletank finder a separate thing, or is it the VSTi plugin screen, as I've got listed below (but with no Mr. Miroslav)?
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Appreciate the clarification. Interestingly, when I unzipped the Free Samples, in the "Instruments" folder there is definitely a folder with that name "Miroslav Philharmonik Sounds" and containing 104Mb of files.
I ran the associated file: "SampleTank Free Sounds Installer.exe" that came with the download, but it apparently didn't install the Miroslav or other files?
What's more interesting is that all of the above are included in the download named: "SampleTank Free Sounds", so I really expected Miroslav to be free...
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Unless you only happened to need that ONE brass ensemble - French horns, or only the one choir sound of "Female Oh's" or solo Violin 2 looped (which is not bad).
Larry
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Hi Larry, and FlatFoot, thanks for the feedback and clarifications.
So, one tiny sample as a teaser eh? I should have known. There really is no such thing as a free lunch...
Appreciate your efforts
Regards
Trevor
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Look into the Native Instruments software solutions.
Get Kontakt as it has a nice selection of orchestral stuff and is considered by many cinematic composers to be a MUST HAVE piece of gear.... good stuff at a reasonable price. Entry level to the professional realm.
In addition, NI has dozens of add on sound packs that are worth looking at since each one generally has a specialty and runs on Kontakt.
PLUS.... there are lots of little independent companies making their 3rd party sample libraries so that they run on Kontakt.
You can't go wrong with Kontakt.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.
The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
Thanks Herb, will have a look. NI Kontakt works OK in BB and RB?
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Yes Kontakt works in BIAB and RB (it has both 32 and 64 bit VSTis) I use it as well as Sampletank (and a bunch of others) .
It is now sort of the "standard" sample library player and you just missed the holidays sales with reduced pricing - but I think they do it again a few months.
You can get the free Kontakt Player right now ((just like IK's SampleTank freebie) but it has a lot of limits and a lot of commercial libs will only work for 15 minutes and can’t run scritps etc. unless they specially state they will work with the Kontakt Player - check it out!
It will give you an idea of how well it works, what it's capable, convince you that it works with your music SW etc. and with some homework you can see how much ti will cost to get it and a few good libs.
Larry
Last edited by Larry Kehl; 01/01/1409:08 PM.
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At one time NI actually was giving away a free player that worked with no limitations other than it wouldn't run all the samples the full Kontakt player would.
Yes, Kontakt runs on BB/RB as well as most other DAW's which support VST plugs.
If I could only have one synth..... Kontakt would be that synth
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.
The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
Everything that works that can possibly be done with Strings has already been written.
Voicings, choice of chord stack open, closed, etc. and even other instruments in the orchestra that work well (and it pays to know which instruments DON'T work well with Strings) are as close as your local library that stocks "mini scores" of classical musics and etc. Studying a few of these, while listening to recordings of the piece, can serve as a full education in String Arranging that will last a lifetime.
Orchestral Instruments that work well with Strings are the woodwinds and the French horns, mostly.
Pays to listen to those genres, too, and get to know the few various String arranging systems, so that you can knowledgeably pick one that fits your personal project.
Closed voicing in chording is not all that wonderful with Strings in popular recordings, unless we are talking String Quartet or the likes, which usually stand alone.
Opening up the voicing can open up the String part. Yields Space.
A few close-spaced triads played on any String sampler or synth will "organ" - and kill any chance of yielding the most desirable aspect that Strings can bring to a project. At that point, you could substitute a Pad of any type, synth, organ, what-have-you using the same notes and achieve the same result, but it likely won't sound like a String arrangement should.
Put the Violins in the octave that Violins play in, the Violas in the octave that Violas live in, Cellos in their area, Bass Viols at the bottom. This should cover at least two octaves, if not three or more, depending on things such as available Space, etc.
Finally, having some MIDI samples of MUTED strings can really be a very good thing.
>>>...A few close-spaced triads played on any String sampler or synth will "organ" - and kill any chance of yielding the most desirable aspect ...>>>
Hi Mac! ... I know how to write open and closed voicings, and how they sound .. but please explain the use of the term "To Organ..."
. >>>...Put the Violins in the octave that Violins play in, the Violas in the octave that Violas live in...>>>>
I love the sound of solo viola, but when I write for a string quartet using my idea of SATB voice ranges, the result is often thick and muddy. Its worse when there is a BiaB rhythm section playing. Losing the viola often opens up the sound.
What would you suggest for a bottom note for the 2d violin and a top note for the cello, such that the viola has a respectable space of its own in which to play?
Flatfoot sez: Call me when 'Talent-in-a-Box' is ready to ship! -- [8{>
>>>...A few close-spaced triads played on any String sampler or synth will "organ" - and kill any chance of yielding the most desirable aspect ...>>>
Hi Mac! ... I know how to write open and closed voicings, and how they sound .. but please explain the use of the term "To Organ..."
One of the aspects of ensemble playing is that no matter how well-trained the musicians involved are, no matter how well each has practiced their ability to count, which in performance terms means, "to hold meter" - the fact remains that not every single member of that ensemble is going to initiate each and every note at the exact same point in time.
String parts, horn parts, etc. that are played on a keyboard with one hand and sometimes even with both hands will have all notes starting at darn near the exact same times and thus add that telltale "organ-ing" sound. Think the Theater Organ sound. Dead giveaway.
Quote:
>>>...Put the Violins in the octave that Violins play in, the Violas in the octave that Violas live in...>>>>
I love the sound of solo viola, but when I write for a string quartet using my idea of SATB voice ranges, the result is often thick and muddy. Its worse when there is a BiaB rhythm section playing. Losing the viola often opens up the sound.
What would you suggest for a bottom note for the 2d violin and a top note for the cello, such that the viola has a respectable space of its own in which to play?
I've already suggested what needs be done.
Again, "everything that can be done with Strings has already been done" - get your hands on some scores and check it out.
Sometimes it is not necessary to assign a different note to each string section. This is much the same sort of thing as assigning vocal harmonies, it can get very dense sounding very easily, consider the different Timbres of the same note, perhaps being shared among your 2nd Violins and Violas, or between Violas and Cellos.
Sometimes just two notes are all that is needed, too. Strings are the original "Pad" - often just the sonic "glue" that is just enough to compliment what else your song is doing as movement.
Often can be the case where that movement is rhythmically, melodically, or a combination of both that create too much "chop" - add the pad to smooth things out. And leave the feelings and emotions to your listeners, where they belong.
Movement within the Pad is best done in between Melody/Vocal movement.
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