I'm a long-time BIAB user and I'm loving BIAB 2014 but I have discovered one issue that I need to learn how to deal with or perhaps request a patch for the next update.
I use BIAB as the praise band in my church; I play guitar and sing along with 3 other singers and it sounds great. I use BIAB for drums, bass, piano, B3 organ, and horns sometimes (all RealTracks, of course). On slow worship songs I almost always use strings (MIDI) instead of organ and on the final chord of the song, I allow the strings to sustain through the last held chord (by entering C... for example) but I have always entered F5 for that measure and changed the strings level by anywhere from -10 to -20 (give or take) so they won't be so loud on that last, held chord after a fairly loud final chorus. I need to do this because the other instruments (piano and bass) fade naturally but the strings do not.
However, with the new legato feature, a volume reduction on that final held chord does not affect notes that were already playing. I found I could reduce the volume in the next-to-last measure with the F5>change by... technique but the result is that the strings drop in volume too early, one full measure before the final chord. If I could somehow turn off the legato feature ONLY IN THE LAST MEASURE(S) where there is a held, final chord, that would fix it. A setting that turns the legato effect completely off throughout the entire song wouldn't be my preference as I enjoy the feature except on that last measure...
The reason is simple enough, those held notes have already been intitiated before the change is invoked, they are carrying over from the previous bar, which is the feature itself, actually.
Since it is a RealTrack and not MIDI based, I don't think there is an easy way to stop that inside BB.
Use of RB is another story, there the entire track set is laid out on the timeline and you might be able to invoke Audio Fadeout on the Strings track.
An easier way that stays in Band in a Box might be to simply invoke a Fade out of the strings, using the Bar Setting dialog, and starting a bit further back by a few bars on the Strings track.
One possible solution with BIAB would be to turn off the 2-bar ending, add the fade and get the strings playing exactly as you want them to. Then, once you're happy with how they sound, Freeze the track they're on.
Now turn the 2-bar ending back on and regenerate the song. Because the strings are frozen, they won't be affected by the regeneration. (At least that's the theory. I haven't tried it.)
Mac is correct in that this would be very easy to accomplish in Realband.
The strings are MIDI, not a RealTrack, in case that matters (see my original post).
I'll try the fade function on the strings only and see if that takes care of it.
Thanks, Jim
Hi Jim If the Strings are Midi, then I think the best way is to use the Expression Controller to add Expression to the bar(s) that are required.
In Piano Roll display, select Controller MSB 11 (Expression), and then drag the Expression at the strings track where you want them to fade:
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
I tried this but I've never used this part of the program before. I thought I had figured out how to do it, but sometimes I hear the fade I created with the procedure you outlined and sometimes I don't. When I did hear the fade (which completely solved the original problem, by the way), I resaved the song but upon regenerating or reopening the song, the fade was gone; it's not being saved. I even tried doing the "Save as..." instead of the regular "Save" function, still no luck. I recreated the fade several times and saved it but every time the song is regenerated or reopened, the fade is just not there.
What could I be doing wrong?
Jim Psalm 33:3 Sing unto him a new song; play skillfully with a loud noise.
Thank you, Peter. I guess I could throw in the towel and turn the legato feature off, but that feature was one of the reasons I was excited about BIAB 2014.
I looked where you told me to go for turning it off for a single song, but couldn't find that option anywhere. Actually, if I were going to turn it off, I would rather just turn it completely off for all songs, but I can't find anyplace to do that, either. I do have build 380. Would you please tell me exactly where to find those options?
I'm really much more interested in making VideoTrack's suggestion of fading the strings track via expression controller MSB 11 work right; I can make the fade happen but I can't get it to save. Any help that you (or anyone else) could provide with that would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks, Jim
Jim Psalm 33:3 Sing unto him a new song; play skillfully with a loud noise.
... I'm really much more interested in making VideoTrack's suggestion of fading the strings track via expression controller MSB 11 work right; I can make the fade happen but I can't get it to save. Any help that you (or anyone else) could provide with that would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks, Jim
Hi Jim, the settings save with my song, I just opened up my small test from yesterday to verify. But remember they will be 'hidden' next time you load, until you go back to view the CC 11 message.
Mac's idea to freeze once you get the sound you want is absolutely spot on also.
Regards Trevor
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
Thank you (and Mac and Peter) so much for helping me with this.
I did as you say and called up those settings after saving and then regenerating or reopening the song, but they simply did not save for me. I could not see the fade on the piano roll and more importantly, I could not hear the fade. I wouldn't mind not being able to see it as long as I can hear it.
Yes, I guess I could freeze the track but if I could get the expression settings to save with the song without freezing it, that would be my preference. I rather like the way unfrozen tracks vary a bit each time you play the song. But if I have to freeze it, I will, even though it seems that I shouldn't have to...right? Did you have to freeze it to get the settings to "stick"?
Maybe I need more detailed instructions? Here's what I did: I clicked on Piano Roll view, selected the S button for strings, clicked on the Control button, then selected "11 Expression MSB" and then in the lower box, I drew the diagonal fade line from the top left corner of the first measure where I want the fade to begin (measure 48 in this case) to the bottom right corner in the middle of measure 49 where the song ends. Measure 48 has for the final chord "E...d" (the drums are muted) then in the middle of measure 49 I have "A." to end the hold chord on beat 3. But after drawing the fade line, I don't see anything else to do except click on "Save" (or even "Save As.." and then replay the song. When it replays without regenerating, the fade is there but not if I regenerate the song or open another song and come back. Am I leaving out a step or something?
Jim Psalm 33:3 Sing unto him a new song; play skillfully with a loud noise.
Here's some tips that might help resolve: 1: When you select S for Strings, are you seeing notes on the piano roll at the place where you want the fade to occur?
2: If you play the track immediately (before saving etc) do you hear the fade occurring? (You shouldn't need to save before being able to review the changes)
If not, maybe your midi device doesn't accepts these control change messages (highly unlikely).
3: What midi device are you using for strings?
4: Presumably, the strings track is in yellow or light blue on the Mixer Windows? (i.e. it is definitely a midi track)
5: There's two(2) S buttons. The right-most one is the Soloist Track, not the Strings Track. Just checking.
6: What is the Channel set to (could be All, but make sure it matches your Strings Synth)
7: In Notation view, if you select the # button to view the Event List, do you see the Expression Events for that track?
Hope these tips help regards Trevor
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
1. Yes 2. Yes - if it doesn't regenerate in order to play the song. (Sometimes it does even though I click on Play, not Generate and Play. 3. Internal - VST/DXi 4. Yellow 5. S button on the left for Strings 6. All 7. Don't know. If I hit #, it automatically switches to M (melody). Couldn't make it stay on the strings track.
I appreciate your help, but I've spent all the time on this I can. I give up. I'll freeze the track - that does work. I don't like it frozen, but if that's what I have to do, I'll do it. I've never used this technique for fading before and I'm really glad you suggested it.
Thanks, Jim
Jim Psalm 33:3 Sing unto him a new song; play skillfully with a loud noise.
1. Yes 2. Yes - if it doesn't regenerate in order to play the song. (Sometimes it does even though I click on Play, not Generate and Play. 3. Internal - VST/DXi 4. Yellow 5. S button on the left for Strings 6. All 7. Don't know. If I hit #, it automatically switches to M (melody). Couldn't make it stay on the strings track.
I appreciate your help, but I've spent all the time on this I can. I give up. I'll freeze the track - that does work. I don't like it frozen, but if that's what I have to do, I'll do it. I've never used this technique for fading before and I'm really glad you suggested it.
Thanks, Jim
Jim Your answer to 7 is probably correct, you can only edit the Melody or Soloist Track
I believe that you cannot change the midi on the Strings Track
Can you record your own strings onto the Melody or Soloist Track and then perform the edit? That would work I'm sure.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
If cc11 isn't sticking, try using cc7 Volume on just the string track instead. Won't sound any different at that point, since you are Fading Out and not wanting to make the strings louder than the original cc7 setting.
I think I have figured out something. Maybe I should have known it all along, but I didn't.
If I draw the controller 11 fade on the final held chord in the strings track in the Piano Roll view and click on "PLAY" (or hit the space bar which does the same thing), the song will almost always regenerate (because of the change that's been made, I guess) but in the process of regenerating, it loses the fade completely. Virtually every time.
Here's what I have just discovered: after I draw the fade, if I then double-click on the bar # while still in the Piano Roll view and play from that point, it won't regenerate and the fade stays intact. But if I then just save it, then play another song, then come back to the one with the fade, it's gone again. The only way to lock it in is to draw the fade, double-click on the bar # where it starts, play from that point in the song, then save it, AND THEN FREEZE THE TRACK. It seems to me that this exact sequence of steps is the only way I can keep the fade. I can live with that (but I still wish I didn't have to freeze it).
Note to Peter (or anyone who knows the answer): I don't think I ever saw any further instructions on your suggestion to turn off the legato feature, either per song or globally. I have looked and looked but can't find any place to deselect, turn off, or uncheck it.
Jim Psalm 33:3 Sing unto him a new song; play skillfully with a loud noise.
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