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Eye in the Sky : Alan Parsons https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNiie_zmSr8Need you now: Lady Antebellum https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM213aMKTHgSo listen to the piano lick intro, and the melody of these two songs..... obviously a different tempo and key.... but.... what about that melody...? Too close for comfort? Coincidence or rip-off? No lawsuit was ever filed by the artists involved. This has been a topic of discussion on some circles.... What say ye?
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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I agree that it's reasonable to say that there are similarities...
Coincidence? Hard to nail that one.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
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Only similarity I hear is that 1m to 6M chord change.
Chord changes are not copyrightable.
If they were, song sales would have been over a long time ago.
--Mac
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OK.... have a listen to THIS video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sS1z2inwJ2othe maker took the time to convert the songs tempo and key to be the same.... then spliced them so it's easier to see the similarities.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Melody infractions are the domain of the legal system, one of the two copyright owners would have to initiate legal action for that, though, right? If they don't, there is no other way that I know about.
--Mac
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It's arguable that there are definite similarities between the two songs.
(Whether any party should contemplate taking any legal action is an entirely different matter.)
I think the purpose of the evaluation was only to determine if there was any "likeness", not to determine if there should be any legal action taken by the relevant parties.
Cheers
Trevor
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
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It's arguable that there are definite similarities between the two songs.
(Whether any party should contemplate taking any legal action is an entirely different matter.)
I think the purpose of the evaluation was only to determine if there was any "likeness", not to determine if there should be any legal action taken by the relevant parties.
Cheers
Trevor
bingo!! to my ear there seems to be a certain likeness to these 2 songs. Perhaps not intentional.... how many of us have sat down to start writing a "new song" and came up with a brilliant song..... then one of our friends, upon hearing it says, "man that sounds just like so and so's song".....? I know I have. Several times.... and I've caught myself a bunch more. On this song, the intro with the piano riff, the groove of the song, the tempo to some degree, and the melody line are all pretty close to each other...... Either way, I'm rather glad that Alan P didn't contact his lawyers and instigate a case. Remember that case where George Harrison was sued for 3 freaking notes on My Sweet Lord? And Men at work were sued by the owner of the Kooka Burra song for the flute part melody in their Men at work song......
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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It's arguable that there are definite similarities between the two songs.
(Whether any party should contemplate taking any legal action is an entirely different matter.)
I think the purpose of the evaluation was only to determine if there was any "likeness", not to determine if there should be any legal action taken by the relevant parties.
Cheers
Trevor
... Either way, I'm rather glad that Alan P didn't contact his lawyers and instigate a case. Remember that case where George Harrison was sued for 3 freaking notes on My Sweet Lord? And Men at work were sued by the owner of the Kooka Burra song for the flute part melody in their Men at work song...... Yes, the very first thing that came to mind when I read the original post was "Down Under" by Men At Work. The interesting thing is that Larrikin Music - who purchased the rights apparently cheaply when they stumbled upon the availability - didn't even recognize the Kookaburra riff in the Down Under tune, even though it was written in 1980. An Australian Music quiz show 'Spicks and Specks' used the song as a panel question, I recall watching the episode, and that is where Larrikin Music saw an opportunity to profit... So some thirty years later blatant plagiarism was uncovered. And, it only took 30 years for anybody to pick it up. There is a history of the events on Wikipedia, at this link. The saddest thing is that the lawsuit outcome resulted in the death of flautist Greg Ham, the guy who played the riff on the recording. It's sometimes better to keep the lawyers out.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
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Nope!
OK , the Intros may have some similarities but for me it all hinges on Alan Parsons original having a unique chord change sequence starting at 0.38 with G/A, G, Gm etc. Nothing like that in Lady Thingys recording. APP then does another full verse whereas LA goes right into that hook chorus. From then on the two version diverge more and more.
So for me, its a No
Ian
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So here's a question. I have fallen in love with using the Brent Mason soloist tracks. I actually cut and slice them to make what are I think are unique riffs and use them as beginning hooks and solos in my songs. Given the fact that these are recordings that PG music says we can use without any danger of copy write infringement from say Brent Mason. Whats to stop another fellow BIAB song writer who just happened to slice and dice very similar to what I've done.
I ask this because while there are a number of soloist tracks to choose from when it comes down to it the riffs tend to repeat themselves as they are limited per soloist. I have spent hours regenerating a soloist track to cut and slice because you tend to get some frequently reoccuring patterns. I'm sure others use the tracks this way.
They start to lose uniqueness after several uses even within the multitude of styles. I hope to post some songs soon to demonstrate the power of the soloist in original songs but the question remains. With repeating real tracks sequences what are the chances of two BIAB writers crafting very similar songs in the same genre and bringing litigation against the other for copywrite infringement?
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So here's a question. I have fallen in love with using the Brent Mason soloist tracks. I actually cut and slice them to make what are I think are unique riffs and use them as beginning hooks and solos in my songs. Given the fact that these are recordings that PG music says we can use without any danger of copy write infringement from say Brent Mason. Whats to stop another fellow BIAB song writer who just happened to slice and dice very similar to what I've done.
I ask this because while there are a number of soloist tracks to choose from when it comes down to it the riffs tend to repeat themselves as they are limited per soloist. I have spent hours regenerating a soloist track to cut and slice because you tend to get some frequently reoccuring patterns. I'm sure others use the tracks this way.
They start to lose uniqueness after several uses even within the multitude of styles. I hope to post some songs soon to demonstrate the power of the soloist in original songs but the question remains. With repeating real tracks sequences what are the chances of two BIAB writers crafting very similar songs in the same genre and bringing litigation against the other for copywrite infringement? In that case you would have to prove that the sequence / riff was created by you and not Brent Mason, surely? It's really only what you add to the song "melody-wise" that can possibly make it your own original material. Cutting and splicing unique riffs recorded by somebody else can't possibly make it 'your genuine original'. You have to add something musically of your own to make it your own 'copyrightable' music. In my view anyway.
Last edited by VideoTrack; 01/22/14 10:39 AM.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
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I had that very thing happen some time back.
I used BB/RB to create a song with tracks and the melody line riff that the RB track created was cool so I kept it in the song...... then, while listening to some songs posted in the User Showcase, I heard that very same lick that was in my song in another person's song. We're all using the same exact software and sampled loops..... chances are it will happen.
I have also noticed that when using the same style and also the same players in RB, yup... you can get repeats from earlier projects. More than one time I have had to change course for that very reason.
Now.... having said that... all that is below the level of copyright infringement since none of those songs are making money. Unless you copy a big time artist with an ego like ...oh...say..... Prince..... you probably don't have to worry too much.
OK next scenario. Two writers using BB/RB write a song and the licks are similar.... the odds of that happening are slim to none, so I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. The biggest factor here is the chances that both of them would have a song which they recorded in BB/RB get recorded by a national artist, and get airplay and chart position, and make money AND the artist keep those licks in the song's tracks...... even more unlikely.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Copyright infringement has nothing to do with whether or not a publication is "making money" or not.
However, it may be difficult to get attorney interested in pursuing a supposed violation when there isn't any monetary "reward" available.
As for Band in a Box, I have found that if you work with the program long enough, as I do when just practicing, and when doing so I love to invoke a new or different style on the same old tune in order to try things, or in order to learn things, or just to make the practice session more interesting, there will come a time when you can instantly recognize use of BB in someone else's presentation. There will indeed be that telltale lick, riff, or somesuch "giveaway" if the creator of the piece just blanket accepted one or the style's or realtrack's often encountered "definitive" phrases.
It am what it am.
--Mac
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When PGMusic gives you the right to use a riff or a phrase to be part of a larger work you have created, then you don't get to claim it as your own when someone else uses that same riff for which they were given the same right to use.
Just as if I recorded a song from the public domain; you don't get to sue me over it just because you also recorded the same song.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 12TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 12TB SATA BB2026/UMC204HD&404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/Notion/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com (under rehosting/construction)
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Either way, I'm rather glad that Alan P didn't contact his lawyers and instigate a case. Remember that case where George Harrison was sued for 3 freaking notes on My Sweet Lord?
George wasn't just sued for "3 notes" on My Sweet Lord. The judge actually said that if those notes were the only similarity then he wouldn't have ruled against Harrison. The problem was that there were many other points of similarity - for example the "3 notes" repeat several times ... the exact same number of times in each song. Then in each song a new melody is introduced, and that melody is also the same in each song, and is also repeated the exact same number of times. The judge (who happened to be a musician himself) said that couldn't have been a coincidence. I think the resemblance to "He's So Fine" was pointed out to George when he was recording the song - but he obviously wasn't bothered enough to make a small change to the melody (or structure) to eliminate the problem. As for the Men At Work song - the owners of "Kookaburra" only ended up getting a relatively small %, and only from a relatively recent date. I think part of the problem for Greg Ham was that he did admit he'd lifted the part, probably thinking the original was out of copyright, and so felt guilty about getting the band "in trouble".
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Eye in the Sky : Alan Parsons. What say ye? Alan Parson being one of my all time favorites so I decided to give a listen without reading other responses. Yes...it certainly is reminiscent of Eye In The Sky. To me, it's that bass line that jumps out as an EITS reminder. That simplistic keyboard melody is mildly close also. I tend to think it's more coincidence rather that rip-off. Even if it was intentional (sampled/copied) it's not enough to call a c/infringement. But, I have been wrong in the past. When I'm playing my axe I still play Prime Time & You're Gonna Get You're Fingers Burned'.....well written, enjoyable tunes to play. Carry on....
Last edited by chulaivet1966; 02/17/14 10:36 AM.
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I think that the musician's name is known who worked on the development of a BIAB style is simply a marketing advantage for PG Music. There is no difference between making a backing track or writing original music on a keyboard using a particular style than using a BIAB style for the same purpose. The same similarities exist between BIAB or keyboards in songs from different artists who have chosen songs with similar key progressions, melodies and the same style.
Last edited by c_fogle; 05/04/14 06:26 AM.
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On the topic of same song - Here is an older but interesting one in country music. You're The Reason God Made Oklahoma from the film Any Which Way You Can, performed by David Frizzell and Shelly West. It was written by Larry Collins and Sandy Pinkard. It spent one week at number one on the country chart and eleven weeks on the Top 40 country chart. The writers of Rocky Top (Felice and Boudleaux Bryant) sued Collins and Pinkard for copyright infringement because the melody was similar to their song "Rocky Top" and won. Josie
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These songs have a similar underlying groove but I don't see anything I'd find for the plaintiff on. I have heard a lot more egregious than this!
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