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As my electric bill escalates, I often wonder, should I be concerned with the daily expense of leaving things run, or should I turn everything off when finished with a BB session? I have a $28.00 tester from Menards that answered several questions concerning every day expenses. First, using a single source 120 vac. outlet, I have my usual suspects up and running. Two QSC K12 powered speakers, one ALLEN&HEATH ZED 10fx mixer, an Ampeg GVT15H, AMPEG V4BH, DigiTech Vocalist Live4, HP Windows7 CORE i7 lap top, and a Yamaha MD4s. @ a rate of 9 cents per KW: 7hrs and 20 min.=1.63 KWH =.14 cents. :)So, I say let her run and enjoy the Best Buy available any where. Also for what is 's worth: a 12 gallon per day humidifier 58 hrs. and 45 min. cost .27 cents, An Eden Pure GEN4 heater, outside temp.@ 20 degrees fare., 98.18 hrs. cost $7.39. I hope someone can put these figures to good use.-----Leon
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We went out to dinner last night and spent $50. That was an intro, chorus, and 2 bar ending with no repeats.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Yep, Inrush Current at startup can easily cost more than what the meter rolls for steady state idling.
--Mac
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The question of "let it run, or shut it off" is more than simply the electrical cost.
That's the cheapest part of the equation.
I turn my studio gear off. Leaving it on subjects it to electrical spikes from the utility company 24/7 vs the 2 hrs or so I'm working on it. These things are coming down the line constantly. So use a good surge suppressor all the time. But lightning and utility switching surges can be larger than the MOV's can handle.
Also, when the gear is on, the electrical voltage is a pressure that affects the lifespan of the components. Any time there is voltage and current in a circuit, that pressure is there AND heat is being created. Heat also shortens the component lifespan.
Turning the computer off also clears the memory cashe which is a good thing to do.
The down side is that every time you turn it on, you cause a bit of a shock to the circuit as the current rushes in to charge things up and get it running again.
I weigh the options and choose the shut down. Besides, look at all that money I'm saving as electricity prices skyrocket.
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 02/16/14 11:02 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Guitarhacker, All good points for sure. I do not let everything run 24/7, but then again, now I know that it only cost a few pennies to leave it on should I choose to. I am surge protected, X three power strips.----Leon
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As with most subjects of this type, I weigh the advantages and disadvantages on a daily basis and govern shutdown accordingly. For example, if I'm scheduled to leave the home office in the morning, no sense leaving it all turned on during that time.
On the other hand, if I'm working on something and have to take a break from it, I might choose to just leave everything up and running.
And everybody who uses electronic components of any kind should invest in good surge protection at a minimum, UPS with built in surge protection is great stuff. Power goes off, gear stays on. Allows for graceful shutdown if nothing else, often such a power down is short enough to allow me to just continue working through it while the UPS powers the junk.
--Mac
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Rachael, I am glad that you can afford to scoff at the rising cost of living. Some can not afford a trip thru Mc D's until the 3rd. of the month rolls slowly around each month.  -----Leon
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When finished I turn everything off, why? Because my Dad would have had a foot in my backside if I did not . . . now Dad has been gone a long time but old habits are still hard to break.
Later,
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Regardless of power consumption, remember that hard drive is spinning about 10 million revs each a day (for at 7200 rpm drive). Every hour it spins takes another hour off its total working life. Even SSD's have a finite operating life.
Have backups....
BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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That's a good point to consider about the life of the HD, however I mostly leave the pc on for one reason; automatic system updates occur quite often and also the weekly scans for viruses malware and such, which mostly is setup to run automatically in the middle of the night. If it is turned off your liable to start any updates or scans, so here you are waiting for this thing do their stuff while you wait and often times you are asked to reboot to complete whatever it was doing. So I'm lazy I guess.
Mike B.
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Of course, the drive manufacturers will state fantastic MTBF values, potentially 50+ years. In the real world, my track record is slightly less than this.
Nothing wrong with leaving systems up continuously. I work in an industry where we have lights-out server rooms full of industrial computers running 24/7. Just make sure you have backups, that's the key!
BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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Rachael, I am glad that you can afford to scoff at the rising cost of living. Some can not afford a trip thru Mc D's until the 3rd. of the month rolls slowly around each month. -----Leon Interesting you thought my comment was scoffing. Point was I pissed away $50 in one night and got short termed enjoyment. BIAB gives as much enjoyment and cost must less. I'll take your .09/kwh vs my .11/kwh any day. Lighten up. I was making a joke.
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I knew what you meant, Rachel.
And also considered the holiday as well, being a happily married old lovebird here.
I think that forum communications can be easily misconstrued, for the simple fact that the written word simply is not able to convey the full communication that the spoken word does, even though a forum isn't exactly poetic or song lyric writing, the lack if prosody in the written word still applies.
You go, girl!
--Mac
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I turn my gear on in the morning or when I first use it, leave it on all day or until I leave, then I shut it down and unplug everything from the AC. If a thunderstorm approaches, I do the same thing.
I live in a very high lightning zone. One of the highest in the nation and even though the incidence is high, the chances of it affecting me are low. Since 1957 when we moved here, it's happened twice.
1) I went to lunch, thought I unplugged everything, but left a hardware sampler plugged it. When I got back it was toasted, the repair charge was $600
2) A sudden storm came up, I was in the process of unplugging everything, sparks flew through the house, and wiped out a printer/copier/fax machine.
Many, many years ago I took a job as a telephone repairman. I thought I was getting out of the music business and becoming a fine, upstanding, productive citizen. It didn't work out that way. I was playing music still on the weekends and when a good opportunity came up, bye, bye ma bell.
Anyway I went to a house that got hit. The drop line from the pole to the house was just neoprene, all the copper was gone and it was brittle to the touch. The metal flashing on the eave of the house was melted to the drop wire. The lightning protector was gone from the side of the house, and I found a good sized piece on the back fence. There was a black stripe on the exterior wall where the ground wire used to be. The wire going from the protector to the wall phone was stiff with red, green, yellow and black insulating plastic dripping out of it, the phone itself looked good until I took the cover off, it was black and melted inside. And there were two holes in the ceiling in the master bedroom over the bed. The customer said the lightning ran around in the attic for about 15 seconds before it punched the holes in the ceiling.
Lightning can do strange things. I don't keep my stuff plugged in when I'm not here, when I'm sleeping, or when as storm approaches.
The electric bill is nothing in comparison.
Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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I had a couple of grand worth of equipment in two connected rooms blown out last summer by a lightning strike, so I value what Bob is saying. But would having the equipment turned off at the time (some was, but most was on) made any difference? It traveled between rooms over my remote speaker cables. I think I would have had to have physically unplugged everything to avoid what happened.
As far as the OP's question, most of my equipment is on as I mentioned, connected to the mains through some protected Furman power strips. The computer, router and modem are on a UPS. I have some things like speakers and the printer on one Furman that gets switched off when I leave the room, but the computer and my hardware synth and mixer stay on. [The firewire connection is too flaky to work every time I power up, so I just leave it on.] My ammeter says 1.4 amps most of the time, so I'm not much worse than a couple of light bulbs worth. In fact, since I replaced all the incandescent bulbs in my house with LEDs, overall I'm ahead.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Proper lightning protection is indeed possible, but usually outside the expenditure that the average homeowner is willing to invest.
Polyphasor protection is used on commercial gear, to include radio and tv transmission sites, towers that attract lighrning all the time, direct hits, and safely dissipating the lightning strikes while protecting antennas, transmission lines and transmitting gear.
When Polyphasor belonged to its originator, "Dr. Lightning" - he built the company up by offering the "no questions asked" full replacement of any gear that was damaged or destroyed by lightning that was protected by his proprietary systems. The only provision was that the polyphasor system had to be installed in strict accordance with their engineering instructions.
To my knowledge, he never had to make good on that guarantee. A good thing, too, for Polyphasor was used to protect that gimongously high powered 100,000 Watt television transmitter site down in Florida.
A typical transmission tower, ground-mounted or on top of a tall building, represents a serious lightning rod and lightning attractor, yet the properly installed setup can take the hits 24/7/365 without the transmitter even going off the air.
Since it is possible to protect all that from strikes, it is certainly possible to protect your home. All horror stories from the unprotected/improperly protected aside, that is.
In the home, at least for US power installations, it is essential that the main power box be grounded directly bonded to the 8 foot or longer grounding rod installation, also essential for that grounding to be inspected periodically for any signs of deterioration. All other grounds, including telephone, should be bonded to that same single point or all protection bets are off.
Ironically, it is typically not the amount of power from the initial strike that damages electronic equipments, it is the backwards flow of DC current that happens AFTER the initial strike completes and the magnetic field that it generated around all of the associated wiring falls, generating a current in the opposite direction on all those conductors. Of course, that whole event might only last a few hundred milliSeconds, but the sheer amount of voltage that back pulse can rise to is what damages things like semiconductor junctions in your gear.
All of the recording gear, including any pcs, connected to power via a good quality UPS system with surge protection, connected to good power line with good ground can go a long way in preventing lightning or power surge damages to your gear, whether that gear is powered on or off at the time. Yes, semiconductor junctions inside gear that isn't turned on can still be destroyed by lightning strike if not protected properly.
--Mac
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BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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We went out to dinner last night and spent $50. That was an intro, chorus, and 2 bar ending with no repeats. Hi Rachael I picked up exactly where you were coming from - $50 for a one-off, and no repeats - quite the opposite to BiaB. And frankly I really liked the 'musical' way you delivered your observations Good for you!
BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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I can certainly appreciate a good lightning story since I have been in electrical servicing and security systems installation and servicing most of my adult life (where I worked a productive "real job")
I've seen lightning do some really bizarre things in all the years I have worked in these fields.... I have a number of lightning stories but will spare you my ramblings. OK... just one that was funny at the time... to me anyhow....
A customer's phone line got hit. The surge protector on the phone line shorted out but the alarm dialer was OK. The device did it's job. The phone guy comes down and we had determined there was a break in the line due to the lightning. So he used a "thumper"... it sends a high voltage spike repeatedly through the wire to find the break, with a receiver. He's walking through the weeds along the driveway pushing the reciever probes in the ground, when he starts "dancing and yelling"..... turned out that the break was located near a fire ant nest in the ground and as he was slowly closing in on the break the ants were pouring out of the ground since they really did not appreciate the electrical jolts through their nest. They found his legs, and attacked.
Yes, no matter how good a surge protection device is, a spark that will jump from a cloud 3000' up to the ground is not going to be stopped by a tiny MOV in a direct primary strike.
Regardless, I still have plenty of surge protection from the service mains coming in to the UPS/surge on the outlet where the gear is plugged in. Phone lines are an often overlooked source of surges. I have addition surge on my phone and internet lines as well.....
so far, so good, as I've only had minor damage to an old dial-up modem on a phone line to this point. A 10ohm resistor got fried in the line in.
I shut down the studio gear when I hear thunder and will only work on a laptop running on battery if I really need to keep working.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Phone lines are an often overlooked source of surges. I have addition surge on my phone and internet lines as well.....
So far, so good, as I've only had minor damage to an old dial-up modem on a phone line to this point. A 10ohm resistor got fried in the line in. I took care of that problem years ago by dumping land lines, the wife and I just use cell phones. Although I do have the internet line go through my surge protection. Loved the fire ant story.
 Steve BIAB/RB 2022, Pro Tools 2020, Korg N5, JBL LSR 4328 Powered Monitors, AKG/Shure Mics.
PC: Win11 PRO, 4 TB M2 SSD, 2 TB HD, 128 GB Memory
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
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- RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®!
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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