PG Music Home Forums General Discussion Off-Topic Income From Music ?

I'm not asking anyone to reveal their top money-making secrets, but aside from live gigs, is it mostly a hobby for you? In other words, a negative cash-flow endeavor?

(Recently I've been thinking about Taxi...again. Perhaps I should search or start another thread on that though.)

Music was a money-making avocation for me. While I was working at a full time job I made extra money teaching and playing in a wedding band. Now that I am retired from both working and playing out my teaching money is my blow money for software. So music has always been a very enjoyable way to make money, thus it has been a positive cash-flow.

Taxi is the site to join if you want honest constructive criticism from pro musicians. If you have thin-skin stay away as they are brutally honest. They assume that you want to sound like the pros and they treat your music as such so don’t get either too attached to your song or go on the defensive with them. They know what they are doing. This opinion is not based on my experiences but one from a good friend who joined taxi.

How to Make a Million Dollars in Music Performance

• Start With Two Million Dollars
• When You Get To One Million Dollars, Stop.
  
  
  

I'll chime in....IMO.

The above cannot be underscored enough.
As I've referenced in the past on this subject one must have the skin of a snow tire.
That, I do have AND brutally honest is what I would expect if I were going the TAXI (or anything similar) route.

Just because I've spent a lot of time writing something and have become emotionally attached to it does not mean it has any appeal to the masses or is any good at all.

I've been doing this a long time as with many here.
Personally, I have no illusions about my song writing catering to the mass appeal market.
After many years in bands music/song writing is only creative therapy for me and an opportunity to interact with other of similar interest. (this forum inclusive )

If anyone beyond my own orbit (especially musicians and song writers) actually comments or says something favorably about my work....that's gratifying enough for this old bird.

In terminating this novelette I'll wish ALL here the best on their music path.

Carry on...

EDIT: I think Mac provided the correct answer.

Outside of playing live, the best way to make money in music is to start a website promising people “access”. “advice” or “professional services” like “radio-ready demos”. This does not require any industry knowledge, contacts or expertise.

Hey, it's the internet. You can be anything you want to be.

...in the hopes that others will believe you.

Shvtfire...the other day I actually heard someone was wrong on the internet.

Back to topic....

Scott,

You have a PM.

later,

Sure Danny. Now you're gonna give away all the secrets to making money in music.

Shhhhhhhh, now everyone's going to want to know. :>

Later,

Hi Scott. Check out www.broadjam.com as an alternative to taxi. I haven't had anything selected but have had a few things short listed.

Try looking these guys up. They're from the Musicians Union.

The best way to make money in this business as a songwriter is to play live and sell your CD's at the gig. Get a following locally and build it into a wider audience with social media..... set up a web site for the band/music and sell there too.

It's not a very easy thing to do because, essentially, you are setting up a business.

As far as making money with your music as a songwriter and NOT playing live.....

You have to be writing what the people, the music supervisors, and the A&R folks want to hear. You can be writing the most amazing songs and getting all sorts of atta-boys from your friends but if the folks who really matter in the commercial end of this are not interested or impressed, that's as far as it will go.

TAXI, BROADJAM, NSAI, FILM MUSIC JOB WIRE, and others including direct submissions to libraries and publishers. They each have their upside and downside. Here's what I know about the ones I have worked with.

I have been a member of 2 of those listed above at one or more times in the past. (Taxi & NSAI) Currently, I'm not affiliated with any. With any of these, you should be able to handle the word "NO" a lot. If not, don't join.


Taxi says the average forward vs return is about 10% forwards...and that was slightly below the rate I was getting. My biggest gripe with them is that the screeners have opinions and are sometimes wrong. I sent 3 songs for a listing. One was forwarded, the other 2 returned. The library president for that listing contacted me and we spoke by phone. He asked for more music along the same line as the one he heard. I sent him the 2 returns and some additional. It was all signed by him.

In LA, I met some of the "Taxi Stars"... the guys and girls who are supposedly making 6 figure incomes doing this. The one guy had his PRO statement as proof. Several others in that conversation were mid 5 figures and growing. So it is possible, if you have the right kind of music and the chops needed to write and record it. Taxi has the connections. The entry price is a bit steep for many folks and the forums for critique can be tough.

The screeners are tough. If a song is called for being indie upbeat with female vocals..... don't submit an indie female vocal slow tune. The targeting has to be dead on or it is a return. One song I submitted for a low budget film ending was deemed to be too "rock ballad style" as opposed to indie feeling even though the lyrics were, as the screener admitted, a dead on perfect fit for the topic they asked for.... returned.

NSAI> Nashville Songwriters Association International..... I've been a member here too. They are more about writing the songs and offering critiques to improve your writing chops. As member, you get 12 in-depth reviews of your songs during your membership term. It was, by using these reviews that I worked with the writers in NSAI to get Come & Go, as well as The Best Christmas into the shape they are currently. NSAI is not, per-se, a place to pitch music and get t to the artists. However, if a song, submitted for review, is deemed to be excellent in every aspect, in other words, "ready to pitch" they will place it into the monthly Pitch to Publisher Luncheon for you. They claim some publishers have picked songs from that group and the songs went on to be top 10 billboard hits. The Best Christmas did get the thumbs up and was placed into the running for a spot on a christmas CD that gets distributed to the publishers..... problem was, that year, they had canceled the CD to publishers.

Film Music Jobwire..... this one is a membership based group, just like the rest, but it's also possible to submit to their listings without being a member for the cost of $6/song. Last year, I sent one song in to FMJ and the library which posted the listing called me the very next day wanting more. I submitted 41 cues total to this library for that listing. It was for a major A&E reality show's new season. I checked my BMI account and all 41 cues are listed in my account. Whether they get used or were used is still to be seen. Often the first the writer hears about it is by the PRO quarterly statement months after the show has aired.

Taxi has a ton of listings, and a high membership cost plus a $5 per song fee.
NSAI has a medium membership cost but no real listings and 12 free song reviews.
FMJ has a smaller number of job listings, a membership fee, and a low per song fee of $6.


That's a nutshell on my experience with the 3 groups I have been associated with. I got results in the form of songs forwarded to the movers and shakers, had a bunch of things signed, and well..... still waiting for that PRO statement to come in.

Another course of action is to seek out the independent publishers who are on line. Some are good and some are a total waste of time. These folks may or may not work through the listing services. My thought is that they have a list of clientele who contact them for music. I have music submitted to a number of these folks and quite a bit of it is signed into their libraries waiting for the right music supervisor to hear it and use it.

Much of the music that I post here in the PG forums is not the music I compose for the libraries. In many cases, the music for a library will be a totally different style/kind of music than is written for artists and general personal enjoyment playing.

Anyway.... I have rambled on long enough...... comments?

I hate to spoil your guys fun but everyone know how a musician can make money. Married a girl with a good paying job!

Short post on how a musician can make money......


get a daytime job.

Music is a hobby for me. It is definitely a negative cash flow proposition. Now I did make some money over at streetjelly.com -- but I spent twice as much tipping other folks!

I miss you Kevin!

I know what you mean, I donate my tips to charity and then buy more for other performers. :>

So until SJ and other sites like this draw enough civilian audiences it will be hard to make money, if indeed we can call a few hundred dollars a month "money" in this day and age.

Later,

Great Mario!

I am SOL there too! :>

Later,

As am I my friend as am I

Had to drive up to Alexandria, just outside the nation's capitol, on a consult.

Me and the missus were sittin' in the rental car waiting for the light to change, on our way to find a good dinner after the day's meetings -- and a kid wearing a tux crossed by in front of us on a bicycle hitched to one of those little bicycle trailers.

Strapped to his trailer with bungees was a guitar gig bag, a jazz sized amplifier with maybe a single 12, and a black music stand.

He pumped on by, standing on the pedals and I looked at the wife and said, "OMG, he's on his way to a GIG!"

Hope it don't rain, kid.


--Mac

I've been making my income by gigging since 1964 with a couple of exceptions. I did try two "day jobs" out while only gigging as a 'weekend warrior' but they didn't work out well. Being a musician is not what I do, it's what I am.

I also have a sideline selling Band-in-a-Box aftermarket styles and fake disks. It's an extension of what I do for my own gigging, and it keeps me from having to travel or take a cruise ship gig during the dead season here in Florida. But I still make most of my yearly income by gigging.

And I don't regret my career choice for one minute.

Notes