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I was thinking of reworking an old composition of mine using BIAB to provide perhaps bass and keyboard parts, but I can't input it properly to BIAB. The trouble is this, I did the drum parts on a drum machine (I no longer have) and went by feel, etc. and as a musician with no formal training I can't now quite figure out what time signatures I composed! I think it may be 3/4 (12/8?) but parts feel more 4/4 to me, like the parts 'When will love break my fall'. Could someone take a listen and tell me what meter(s) I inadertently programmed back then? Many thanks.  'What Might Have Been' John
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John, it sounds like slow 4 to me also, with a definite triplet feel in places. Purt nice programming on the drum machine.
The guitar work at the end is gorgeous. Can't wait to hear the reworked version.
R.
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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Hi John. Your song feels like it is in 12/8. One bar of 12/8 can be beat in a slow four count, at metronome marking 65. Look for a slow ballad style that gives the 12/8 feel. It might be easier on the eyes to notate it in 6/8, though it could just as easily be written in 4/4. There were two spots where a beat was dropped to make things interesting.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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The song definitely sounds 12/8 to me. The counting for this would be:
1 and ah, 2 and ah, 3 and ah, 4 and ah. (12 distinct beats).
When you can say "Canada" and it fits the rhythm of each main beat, you know you have 12/8 (or mabye 6/8). John, the reason your song sounds 12/8 to me is because I can also hear 4 distinct beats - these are split into triplets. In 6/8, there would only be two distinct beats (like a march).
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2024
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Hi John, First of all this is one fantastic song. Great vox and super guitar parts.
I agree with the others that this is 12/8 or a slow 4/4. If you were going to print notation parts I would definitely use 4/4. That way the notation will be accurate.
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The Intro is in Even Feel 4, actually two bars of 4/4 straight, then the song starts in a 6/8 feel but at the same Tempo as the quarter note beat of the intro.
That 6/8 could be done as a 12/8 also, with half as many bars. The reason I am emphatic about it being 6/8 has to do with how your lyric line subdivides the beat. That makes it a 6 and not really a 12. However, it is relatively common to notate such as 12/8 to avoid the "march trio" interpretation from chart readers.
OR -- a 2/4 Triplet divided Swing style, or a 4/4 style that is triplet divided, often described as a "12/8" style.
Good job.
Especially like the bit of Ear Candy at the end, icing on the cake sort of thing.
--Mac
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Wow! First off I just want to say this song is fantastic. Brings out some kind of feeling in me from my past. (Looooong agoooo)  It's definitely a 12/8 with an arpedgio feeling to it. I opened BIAB and set the key to EM. I found a country gospel style called, "C_Gospel Country Gospel Style 12/8", wrote an EM chord and let it fly. The start isn't right but the rhythm is about identicle. I set the tempo to 90 and got it pretty close. Too much reverb on the vox but the guitar was nothing short of splendid. Good on ya Mate. It's a keeper. BTW I've never heard this one before. Is it an original or cover?
Russ Anyday above ground is a good day Computer is Hp Pavillion Vision 6 Ghz quad core AMD processor 8 Gig memory 1 TB hard drive 6 GB hard drive Windows 7 Premium Loose nut behind the keyboard 
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Quote:
The Intro is in Even Feel 4, actually two bars of 4/4 straight, then the song starts in a 6/8 feel but at the same Tempo as the quarter note beat of the intro.
That 6/8 could be done as a 12/8 also, with half as many bars. The reason I am emphatic about it being 6/8 has to do with how your lyric line subdivides the beat. That makes it a 6 and not really a 12. However, it is relatively common to notate such as 12/8 to avoid the "march trio" interpretation from chart readers.
--Mac
I agree with that. I tried the 6/8 style, "C_68 Feel W 8 Country 6 8 feel". It does give the same feel but the 12/8 is fuller. It's more arpegiatted sounding. Easier on the ears and soul. I supposed you could mix 'em up a bit. Use it in a part marker or such. Man I love Band in a box! 
Russ Anyday above ground is a good day Computer is Hp Pavillion Vision 6 Ghz quad core AMD processor 8 Gig memory 1 TB hard drive 6 GB hard drive Windows 7 Premium Loose nut behind the keyboard
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Thanks guys! That's got me on the right track. Thanks also for the complements Ryszard, Mario, Mac, Russ, greatly appreciated. Maybe I should leave well enough alone! It's just that when I originally recorded this I didn't have Sonar and I 'printed' the reverb on my ADAT tapes. You're right Russ, beginners error there, too much reverb. Also, now I can replace the Alesis SR16 drum machine sounds with the ultra realistic Addictive Drums, which I think are just amazing. You guys tried them yet? Russ, many thanks for finding that style, it's set me off now. And yes, Russ it's an original song of mine, yearning for lost youth now, so had to set the feelings down! The challenge of course will be to reproduce all those guitar harmonies (four altogether) and the feeling that went into them. If I do produce another version it's just going to have to be an entirely mew 'cover' of my own song!  John
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I see from the post above the tempo and sig have been figured out, all I want to add is that this is a damn good song performed very well!
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Cheers, Danny, much appreciated.
John
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I don't think the reverb is a kill here at all.
Strong Performance outweighs those kind of considerations.
--Mac
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Quote:
I don't think the reverb is a kill here at all.
Strong Performance outweighs those kind of considerations.
--Mac
Oh I agree fully. That was only to be a consideration should he decide he wants to rework the song from scratch. He's got the stuff to do it with now.
As to guitar harmonies. If you have PTW then you have the TCHelicon. It works very well for creating harmonies. Here's the trick to it.
1. Create the song in BIAB
2. Create the main guitar lead in midi format
3. When finished save the song as a midi
4. Open the song in PTW
5. Now play the main guitar lead
6. Open the TCHelicon and select for it to follow the midi tracks
7. Click on OK and make sure it's set up to creat an individual track for each harmony
8. Click on OK again and let 'er rip
9. Now you will have up to 4 tracks of guitar harmony
The other trick is to create everything in as high a bit rate as your card will allow. Once everything is completed you can convert it back to 16/44.1 or whatever you prefer.
By the way, I was shocked to learn that Real Band won't support over 48 bits. If you are in 16/96 like the last song I made the machine locks and starts stuttering badly. I didn't know it had that limitation until I went into the help file to see if I could figger out how to get around the problem. Once I converted it back to 16/48 it ran smooth as silk.
BTW I believe you can run it in 24/48 too. Just not over 48. If anybody doubts me on this just open the help file and look bit rates up. You'll find it's limited to 48 bit. PTW isn't. Just thought y'all'd like to know.
Russ Anyday above ground is a good day Computer is Hp Pavillion Vision 6 Ghz quad core AMD processor 8 Gig memory 1 TB hard drive 6 GB hard drive Windows 7 Premium Loose nut behind the keyboard
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John,
very nice song, I too love the guitar work at the end.
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24/48 is about as good as you'll get in reality. 24bit/96kHz sounds better in theory (on paper) but really is not a percieved improvement with anybody I have spoken with. Just doubles the file size.
24/44 is fine most times. There is a bigger improvement going from 16 bit to 24 bit than going from the 44kHz to 48kHz or even 96..
Has to do with the size of the chunks of the samples taken during recording.
The bit size determines how long each sample lasts (the size of the chunk over time) and the frequency is how often the samples occur. There is a math formula that says that the frequency cut in half is approximately the reproduced sample frequency range. In other words if you record at 44kHz you can reproduce 22 kHz frequencies (almost) and if you go to 48 kHz you can reproduce 24kHz (not much change there)...and going to 96 means we can theoretically produce up to 48kHz (great for songs you want to play for your dog).
But the bit rate or chunk size adds a lot of depth to the frequency range that IS being reproduced..
Better to use 24 bit with only 44 kHz than to try 16 bit with higher frequencies.
Sonicly speaking anyways..
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Excellent job with this Shuffle beat. One of my fav beats, by the way.
It sounds outstanding as is.
Trax
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"it sounds outstanding as is"
+1
Sundance
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John;
I really liked it as it is. That is some sweeet guitar work. The solo just took me away, and the ending just lets you down so nice.
If I had songs like that under my belt, I would not be thinking of a re-make. Very good original production values. Great work.
Good luck on where ever you take this. . . .
Gene
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Many thanks Mac, Russ, Tom, Trax, Sundance, Gene. Much appreciated.
Thanks to all for listening and for all the input. I've decided to go back to work on a couple of other originals and get those finished before I go back to this one, which anyway poses a risk of disturbing the 'pixie dust'!
John
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