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Fractional tempo question #252600 06/04/14 04:42 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,877 Middlesex, NC Guitarhacker OP Veteran
OP Guitarhacker Veteran Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,877 Middlesex, NC	On a recent brand new collab, the song sent to me was at 63.5 bpm in the DAW it was recorded in and that apparently is the click tempo they followed. (Vocals, piano, drums, bass, guitars.) I was also told that for some "humanization" the song has a few measures that are "slightly" different in tempo. My goal is to create a steel track for this song. I loaded it into the Chord Wizard and the wizard came back close, but not "on" the tempo. I did all the things needed to set the first measure and opened it in BiaB. I clicked play and within a few measures, you could hear clearly that BiaB was following a full tempo..... either 64 or 63 and the song's tempo of 63.5 was placing it, rather quickly, out of sync. I spent around an hour trying to figure out a way to make this work without having to record it all again. Nada. Anybody have a solution to this other than to record the original tracks again, this time to a solid tempo with no fractions and unwaveringly steady? You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.

Re: Fractional tempo question Guitarhacker #252607 06/04/14 05:52 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jul 2010 Posts: 53 NW England Chris_Kn Enthusiast
Chris_Kn Enthusiast Joined: Jul 2010 Posts: 53 NW England	F5 on the first bar in Biab and set the % to -1( 3rd box down on left) should might get you near. Got to be worth trying. Dell Optiplex i3 quad core,8gb mem,500gb nvidia gtx750graphics, Win10 ESI studio monitors Presonus AudioBox iOne interface Presonus Studio One 3 BiaB2014

Re: Fractional tempo question Guitarhacker #252615 06/04/14 07:18 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: May 2001 Posts: 2,274 L Lloyd S Veteran
Lloyd S Veteran L Joined: May 2001 Posts: 2,274	Guitarhacker: When you bring the song into BIAB's ACW, and set "bar one", it will continue adding bar lines where IT thinks they should be. That obviously isn't working for you. Just continue to set additional bar lines, even if you have to set every single one of them. The ACW is capable of setting the tempo to THREE decimal places so you shouldn't have any trouble getting it to line up to 63.5. Let us know if you need more help. Good luck! LLOYD

Re: Fractional tempo question Guitarhacker #252620 06/04/14 07:54 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,877 Middlesex, NC Guitarhacker OP Veteran
OP Guitarhacker Veteran Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,877 Middlesex, NC	I notice that the ACW does estimate to 3 decimal points but it's when I transfer it to BB that I can't seem to set fractional tempo. When I enter 63.5 in the BB tempo window it returns an error window stating the tempo is "out of range" or some other warning. I will try a few of the things suggested, because I'd really like to help this guy out. the song is very well written and recorded to this point. You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.

Re: Fractional tempo question Guitarhacker #252637 06/04/14 12:03 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,877 Middlesex, NC Guitarhacker OP Veteran
OP Guitarhacker Veteran Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,877 Middlesex, NC	a chat with tech support confirmed that BiaB will not support fractional tempos. No matter what the ACW indicates, once the file is transferred to BiaB, the only tempo available are whole number tempos. So the guy in question is supposed to be working on getting me a whole number, steady tempo version. (Like it should have been to start with really) Thanks for trying to help me solve this. You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.

Re: Fractional tempo question Guitarhacker #252666 06/04/14 06:20 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: May 2000 Posts: 22,618 Mi., USA rharv Veteran
rharv Veteran Joined: May 2000 Posts: 22,618 Mi., USA	GH, try using RB instead. In RB the ACW allows tempos with decimals that get ridiculously small. WAY more than 3 decimal points. To 'set the tempo' let the file play through in the ACW while tapping the F8 key on each '1' of the measure. RB intelligently moves the marker to the nearest peak this way, so tapping F8 becomes easier. Worth a shot. I find this level of detail work much easier in RB than in Biab, and RB should open .sgu files .. much better likelihood for success in RB. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome Make your sound your own!

Re: Fractional tempo question Guitarhacker #252674 06/04/14 07:22 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,877 Middlesex, NC Guitarhacker OP Veteran
OP Guitarhacker Veteran Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,877 Middlesex, NC	Rharv.... I will try that.... I played with it for a few minutes and it might just work. I have to get some other ducks in a row to make it even testable.... tomorrow in the AM I think.... running out of time tonight. I'll keep you posted. If this works I will have to call PG support and educate them on their program You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.

Re: Fractional tempo question Guitarhacker #252739 06/05/14 10:52 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,877 Middlesex, NC Guitarhacker OP Veteran
OP Guitarhacker Veteran Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,877 Middlesex, NC	I got it figgered out.... EDIT: or so I thought. As it turns out it's close but there's some issues in the rendering. I took a BB file set to 63 and opened it in RB. Set RB to 63.5 and it converted the files.... sounded OK. I rendered steel to audio and loaded it into the DAW.... not good...close but still not exact. A closer look in RB indicated the problem. It seems RB can not really handle the fractional tempo either very accurately. It made Measure 1 @ 63 then M2 @ 64, M3 @ 63, M4 @64 and so on to get an average speed of 63.5 for the song. Somehow it also threw in a few measures at 65 for whatever reason... so by the end of the song, the steel was off a few beats. As it turned out, the guy on the other end sent me a file dead on to 63 start to finish and I had a perfect steel track in about 15 minutes after I deleted all the other tracks and projects and folders and created new ones. So... there's the answer as far as I can determine.... it still can't be done easily or accurately yet. Last edited by Guitarhacker; 06/05/14 02:25 PM. You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.

Re: Fractional tempo question Guitarhacker #252801 06/05/14 04:37 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: May 2000 Posts: 22,618 Mi., USA rharv Veteran
rharv Veteran Joined: May 2000 Posts: 22,618 Mi., USA	GH, If it wasn't you I'd let you go on with your solution. But I think you will appreciate how accurate RB can be when needed. The key is not using the Tempo Settings to try to fix it, but rather the ACW. I just ran a song through the ACW (a VERY free flowing song), tapping the F8 key on the '1' beat of each measure. See my resulting Tempo map below. RB can indeed be very accurate when needed. When ACW is launched RB wants to default to keeping the tempo and only doing the chords; pay attention to this popup and answer No. Then you can keep replaying and tapping the F8 key to get the tempo. It's pretty accurate when done right. Attached Files (Click to download or enlarge) (Only available when you are logged in) tempoMap.jpg (77.61 KB, 86 downloads) Last edited by rharv; 06/05/14 04:43 PM. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome Make your sound your own!

Re: Fractional tempo question Guitarhacker #252863 06/06/14 04:53 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,877 Middlesex, NC Guitarhacker OP Veteran
OP Guitarhacker Veteran Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,877 Middlesex, NC	That's interesting.... I will try to remember that for the next time I help someone out who records with fractional tempo or no click track at all. I will print it I deleted all the files from my computer when I got the one that was steady on 63 bpm. The last thing I wanted was to get confused between the 2 different tracks. Thanks for showing that. Last edited by Guitarhacker; 06/06/14 04:54 AM. You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.

Re: Fractional tempo question Guitarhacker #252912 06/06/14 04:02 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: May 2000 Posts: 22,618 Mi., USA rharv Veteran
rharv Veteran Joined: May 2000 Posts: 22,618 Mi., USA	There's a link to a video I made on how to do this .. somewhere around here. I think it made it's way to the Tips and Tricks forum a while back, if you are interested in seeing how it makes a tempo map and generates track to the new map. found it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPRU61DkvSg&feature=youtu.be Last edited by rharv; 06/06/14 04:12 PM. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome Make your sound your own!

Re: Fractional tempo question Guitarhacker #252982 06/07/14 06:37 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,877 Middlesex, NC Guitarhacker OP Veteran
OP Guitarhacker Veteran Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,877 Middlesex, NC	cool. I saved the link to watch later. You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.

Re: Fractional tempo question Guitarhacker #253073 06/07/14 05:38 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 493 B BarryKJ Journeyman
BarryKJ Journeyman B Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 493	I was wondering about looking at the issue from the other way around - making the audio file fit BIAB / RB. Essentially what the ACW / F8 key trick does. Nice to know about that. Thanks

Re: Fractional tempo question Guitarhacker #253117 06/08/14 05:52 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,877 Middlesex, NC Guitarhacker OP Veteran
OP Guitarhacker Veteran Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,877 Middlesex, NC	I watched the video. Next time I have some time, I will do that experiment. I still have the 63.5 file.... so it will be fun to try that out. I'm sure, as I set here, that someone else will send me a non-click track demo at some point.... so knowing how to fix it will save the day. You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.

Re: Fractional tempo question Guitarhacker #253277 06/09/14 05:01 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: May 2000 Posts: 22,618 Mi., USA rharv Veteran
rharv Veteran Joined: May 2000 Posts: 22,618 Mi., USA	What is funny (inside joke to me) is the demo song I used for the video is really a 12/8 feel. Count it and you'll see what I mean. Especially the original track by itself. But I used 4/4 in RB. It worked just fine because of the math. It can be felt as flowing triplets in 4/4 or it can be counted in 6/8 or 12/8 time. TBH I'm sure this is likely the reason that RB guessed double the tempo at the beginning of the video when it gets sent to ACW .. but I wanted the 4/4 tempo. So I suavely adjusted the tempo for 4/4. Nobody has mentioned this to me once. Watching the video now I giggle. RB is very flexible. Styles meant for one time sig can work in another, and give a certain feel. Experimenting with this stuff is one of the funnest things for me. The bass track was set to play half notes (in 4/4), which is every triplet in 6/8 or 12/8. Drums were set straight to accentuate the triplets of the original guitar track. If I'd tried to do anything more with the bass the whole ruse would have been exposed. I should go back and try 12/8 styles on the same audio track (with corrected tempo) and compare results. I'm sure I'd have gotten a much different feel as a result. Like I said, experimenting is fun for me. Sorry if I rambled on too much. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome Make your sound your own!

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