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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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OP
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Just bought BB2016 and want to use the patches ( non GM ) from my Korg M1 VST, but I cant get BB to play the right patch. It seems to randomly chose a patch that bears no rsemblance to the one I am chosing. I am picking the same GM NUMBER in the Plugin part of the mixer, that correspondes with the number of the the patch I want in the drop down menu shown in the Korg VST window, and I get a different patch playing, and cant see the relationship between the two? how do I match up my chosen Korg patch with what BB wants to play?
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Are you using the Korg M1 Patch Map It's available from the PGM Web Site
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
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OP
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I looked at that but it is only a DK file for drums not an instrument patch file
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Here is a complete list of Korg Legacy Collection M1 and all cards (programs and combis) it was in Japanese - this is the translated to English link https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://i16.blog.so-net.ne.jp/2013-03-30-1&prev=search The LIST can be cut and pasted into a text editor - from there you'll have to figure out how to make bank/program changes for BIAB or RB or PTPA that work properly in the M1 VSTi just an FYI, turns out Sonar comes with an Korg M1 .ins file but its ONLY for the internal ROM presets (100 programs and NO combi's) https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Knowledge-Base/2007013272/Instrument-Definitions#Explainedlook down until you see "Download Download Instrument Definitions included with the latest Cakewalk software " when you unzip that there will be a Korg.ins file (it will have a lot of Korg synths beyond M1 but you can find the M1 factory list "Korg M1 Factory Default" starting at line 2440) Larry
Win10Pro,i9,64GB,2TBSSD+20TBHDDs,1080TI,BIAB'24,Scarlett18i8,Montage7,Fusion 8HD,QS8,Integra7,XV5080,QSR,SC-8850,SPLAT,FL21&others,Komp.14,IK suite&others, just a guitar player-AXE FX III &FM9T, FishmanTP, MIDIGuitar2, GK2/3'sw/GI20
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Wow...thank you. how would I have ever figured that out! What you are saying is I get the list and use it to manually direct BIAB to the right patch based on the "map list " ?
Conversely what would I do with the sonar .ini file, if I was happy to just use the 100 ROM presets ?
Thank you so much for taking the time to help. Its much appreciated.
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±+ HERE ++ is a link that describes how to convert a Cakewalk INS file to a BiaB INS file. By the way, welcome to the forum!
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Thank you...I have some work to do !
and thank you for your kind welcome.
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I looked at this a little more. So far (and I'm still looking at this ), for now, it looks like you must MANUALLY set the M1 for Program mode or Combi mode. However, the
MSB (aka controller 0, or 2nd column in a .pat file) and LSB's (aka controller 32, or the 3rd number in a .pat file) to select individual Program's/Combi's from all the cards are as follows:
To select one of the ~2600+ PROGRAMS:
Any MSB (is immaterial - so far - so leave it at 0 or 1):
LSB 0 - 21 are "Cards 1" thru "KLC," and
LSB 22 - 25 are "User 1" thru "User 4" cards respectively, and
LSB 26 - 36 are the T1 cards 1 thru 11 respectively
To select one of the ~1650+ COMBI's 's use the SAME LSB to obtain the Combi from the SAME card as the respective programs:
Any MSB (again is immaterial - so far - so leave it at 0 or 1):
LSB 0 thru 21 are "Cards 1" thru "KLC," and
LSB 22 thru 25 are "cards" "User 1" thru "User 4" respectively, and
LSB 26 -36 are the T1 cards 1 thru 11 respectively
While converting the Sonar Korg M1 .ins to a BIAB .pat file will work, it only converts what is there. and until someone does entire M1, right now that is only CARD 1 programs (or the first 100 factory ROM programs), as I mentioned previously.
But it does give you a starting point like [CARD 1-prgs] sample below, you need to add cards 2 thru KLC. I started CARD 2 sample (set LSB=1, 3rd column), and then repeat all that for the Combi's if you want to be able to call those up as well.
[CARD 1-prgs]
1.0.0=00 Universe
2.0.0=01 Piano 16'
3.0.0=02 Brass 1
4.0.0=03 Ooh/Ahh
5.0.0=04 Guitar 1
.
….
[CARD 2-prgs]
1.0.1=00 One World
2.0.1=01 Piano2 16'
3.0.1=02 Alto Sax
4.0.1=03 Spectrum 2
5.0.1=04 E.Bass 2
..
..
Larry
Win10Pro,i9,64GB,2TBSSD+20TBHDDs,1080TI,BIAB'24,Scarlett18i8,Montage7,Fusion 8HD,QS8,Integra7,XV5080,QSR,SC-8850,SPLAT,FL21&others,Komp.14,IK suite&others, just a guitar player-AXE FX III &FM9T, FishmanTP, MIDIGuitar2, GK2/3'sw/GI20
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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OP
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This is very interesting, if perhaps a little beyond my normal comprehension of how to make things work in any software, never mind BIAB.
If I'm understanding so far... I can convert the Sonar .ini file automatically in BIAB using the method in the link above. At that point the first 100 patches should connect by assigning the relevant patch number in BIAB.
If I want to do the same for more patches, I have to change the numbering system as per your last post. Do you do that by opening the new .pat file in Notebook??? Make the numbering changes. Then save it as a new .pat file. Or is there some other way to make those changes?
Sorry I'm really not as deeply conversant with this stuff as you are!
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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First, aside from our discussion on building a .pat file, based on what you said I think you might be confused on how these VSTi's get called up by BIAB (and ANY DAW). Assuming you have a pat file for a certain synth (VSTi), or you do convert the Sonar .ins file to a .pat file, you must STILL tell BIAB, or ANY DAW not just BIAB, to load the Korg M1 or whatever synth/VSTi you want.
BIAB will not CALL UP the Korg M1 VSTi by simply using the Korg M1 .pat file.
Next, what I was explaining above was how to CREATE a FULL .pat file that has ALL of the Korg M1 patches, not just first factory 100, but all 2600+ programs (aka patches).
I was just suggesting a STARTING point: by using the one converted from Sonar (the .ins) by BIAB into a .PAT and ADDING to it.
I was NOT suggesting you keep editing the same file over and over or even creating a separate .pat file for each 100 patches (one per card as it were) that would be tedious to use - you'd have to remember which Korg M1 "Card" had which patch and call up that .pat file.
Good luck
Larry
Win10Pro,i9,64GB,2TBSSD+20TBHDDs,1080TI,BIAB'24,Scarlett18i8,Montage7,Fusion 8HD,QS8,Integra7,XV5080,QSR,SC-8850,SPLAT,FL21&others,Komp.14,IK suite&others, just a guitar player-AXE FX III &FM9T, FishmanTP, MIDIGuitar2, GK2/3'sw/GI20
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Thanks Larry, I've got the Korg M1 working with the sonar ini file converted. I was already ok with the loading the M1 first, so that wasn't a problem. I'm way ahead now thanks to the forum for your help.
My next adventure will be to write these new .pat files.
Again I think you are saying use the .pat file I have now and add to it with the numbers you gave an example with. And now you are saying make one .pat file with all the cards included. Am I right?
Regards
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Correct one big PAT that has ALL of the M1 Cards - unless there are some you NEVER plan to use (like the drums or special effects, etc.)
If you had a programmers text editor that allowed COLUMNAR marking, editing, & cut/paste it makes making these big .ins, or .pat, or.ini's a lot easier and faster (something like Multi-Edit, not even sure that's sold anymore?)
but there are other ways-like brute force typing or
Creating the number lists (e.g., "n.0.m = p " where n goes 1-128 and m goes 0-127 and P goes from 1-128 or 0-127 or whatever the synths patch, MSB, LSB, = program numbering scheme is) in Excel (or MS Acesss or ...) then cut & pasting in the card's (bank, etc.) 128 patch/program text names from the big list you linked to in that Japanese site into the column next to that now created number list (which you COULD/SHOULD steal from and existing .pat file), then merging the two columns.
Then export that card (bank) list of 128 patches and simply open your MS text editor and add those to your existing .pat file at bottom with a delimiter like [CARD X - name], rinse and repeat.
There are multiple ways to do it - some slicker than others - some faster than others- some dumber than others - some worse than others
When your all done you might want to share your work here for others. Test it, then send to PG support so they can post it for others to use (that's how a lot of the ones you see over at support got there)
good luck
Larry
Win10Pro,i9,64GB,2TBSSD+20TBHDDs,1080TI,BIAB'24,Scarlett18i8,Montage7,Fusion 8HD,QS8,Integra7,XV5080,QSR,SC-8850,SPLAT,FL21&others,Komp.14,IK suite&others, just a guitar player-AXE FX III &FM9T, FishmanTP, MIDIGuitar2, GK2/3'sw/GI20
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Hi Larry, I just did a Korg M1 .PAT file, from a .INS file I also created which works in Sonar LE etc.,, just the programme names on the 32 cards, so over 2500 patches, no Combis
- do you think these will be useful?
I don't seem to get any reliable results in BiaB when trying to select the Higher Bank patches, it doesn't seem to list all the patches unless i manually change the patch banks (in the same box)
IMHO it seems the iM1 VST in not really a suitable VST for BiaB unless we can manipulate the choices directly in the VST window from the Biab Mixer window, much like you can do with the same iM1 VST in Cubase...
Every blessing
Tim
===============
One man band with keys/guitar in iPad MIDI backing/looping with Korg tone modules (iM1 seems favourite).
Looking for a good MIDI looper to use with OnSong on the iPad
===============
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I sort of lost the bubble on this one but (old guy disease = can't remember s&!*)
...did you manually type (or cut & paste) in all programs from all cards and make a .INS and or .PAT file? If so GREAT, AND you really need to send a COPY to PG Support so they can post it with all the other user made .pat files
If not where did you get a full .ins or pat file (at least for the programs if not the combis)?
Now back to your question:
IN MY OPINION only: No the KORG M1 along with a LOT of synths (hardware and software), and I OWN a lot of synths and ROMplers (for the purists out there) and early on I even wrote .INS, .INI. and .PAT files for my synths, are not exactly "simpatico" with BIAB.
When using BIAB with MIDI, this obviously doesn’t apply when using RT’s, IMHO it’s a WHOLE lot easier to use a fully GM compliant synth (Sound Canvas's, Ketron SD-2's, TTS-1, Forte, etc. or synths that have a dedicated GM/GS/XG MODE).
Before the pitch forks come out, yes you can, and I HAVE over the many years of using BIAB, used a lot of NON-GM equipment and non-GM patches from a lot of synths(HW and SW) inside BIAB but it can be a little more cumbersome in BIAB then inside a dedicate DAW. Besides I usually only use BIAB to SKETCH out a song, or as an easy way to get charts entered, not finalize the song’s “studio band” as it were, I do that in a dedicated DAW(s) but that’s just me.
Larry
Win10Pro,i9,64GB,2TBSSD+20TBHDDs,1080TI,BIAB'24,Scarlett18i8,Montage7,Fusion 8HD,QS8,Integra7,XV5080,QSR,SC-8850,SPLAT,FL21&others,Komp.14,IK suite&others, just a guitar player-AXE FX III &FM9T, FishmanTP, MIDIGuitar2, GK2/3'sw/GI20
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Hi Larry, I cobbled together the .ins file first as I've done it in the past to try to add features to existing .ins'. I collected the M1 card listing from a couple of sources, including that Japanese one you listed above and the other this guy: http://bobbyblues.recup.ch/korg_m1/m1_soundbanks.html#KorgWith some whizzo manipulation using Excel and saving to a text file.... and a bit of manual stuff.... and several coffees.... then using the BiaB import function. I'll email them to PG Support
Every blessing
Tim
===============
One man band with keys/guitar in iPad MIDI backing/looping with Korg tone modules (iM1 seems favourite).
Looking for a good MIDI looper to use with OnSong on the iPad
===============
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Peter Gannon Talks Band-in-a-Box with zplane
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