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Joined: Dec 2006
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Journeyman
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I saw this post a few weeks back http://www.pgmusic.com/ubbthreads/showfl...ge=5#Post235652, and it set my thoughts to spinning. I have an emu 0404 pci card in my music desktop, but all midi thru must be played thru a soft synth (don't have a hardware synth). This results in very noticeable delay from pressing a keyboard key until a sound is heard (even using ASIO). My question is: could I put one of these old Sounblaster live cards in the computer (slots are available), then play midi in via the emu card and direct midi output to the soundblaster live card (thereby having essentially no latency)?. I'm assuming I'd have to route the SB output to the audio input on the emu card. If this would work, which of the many Soundblaster live cards should I try to get (value, 4.1, 5.1, etc). There's lots of these on e-bay, etc. I understand the sound quality won't be anything near what I could get with something like the Ketron SD2, but I catch a lot less flack from the missus for spending $10 on my toys than spending $400. Also thru my cheap little computer speakers, I'm not sure it'd make a lot of difference. thanks, Bruce
Macbook Pro 2018
2.6 GHz 6-core Intel Core i7, 16 GB RAM
OS Monterey
BIAB for Mac 2022
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Knowing what OS you are using would help with the suggestions.
I believe the 'value' card is not a true SBLive and would be using the RAM from the system, so it would not be as effective,
I have a couple of the 5.1 cards and they seem to work pretty well... I do as you thought of, and run the line out of the SBLive to the number 7/8 inputs of my Delta1010 when I use it. I know I could use the digital connection, but if I am using the SBLive it is usually only for a click or a quick idea I want to try..
If you are using Vista I am not sure reliable drivers would be available. Haven't looked into that at all.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Installing a Creative card of any kind alongside an E-MU card won't work if you use the Creative/E-MU supplied drivers for each card. This is because the two cards share some of the exact same files.
Some people have reported being able to install certain Creative cards alongside the E-MU by installing the E-MU first and making sure it is up and running fine, then install the Creative card second, say NO to letting Windows find drivers for it and then installing the KX Drivers onto the Creative card.
However, and it is a BIG however, using the E-MU card and ASIO drivers should easily allow for realtime use of a DXi or VST MIDI synth in realtime. I can do it here using the E-MU 1616M and I know folks who do it all the time using the 0404 as well.
I think you are missing something in how to set things up if you are getting that kind of latency.
*Do not attempt to use the Microsoft Software Synth for playing in realtime. It has a built in delay that you cannot work around. It also does NOT work at all with ASIO drivers, it only works with the Windows Sound Drivers.
*The VSC DXi synth supplied with BIAB, which in later versions also installs a VST version, works fine as well. This synth can indeed be played in realtime easily using the E-MU ASIO driver selection. I have tested this on all three flagship PGMusic softwares, BIAB, RB and PTW.
--Mac
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BTW -- if you do decide to go the second Creative card route, I recommend getting the least expensive one out there now, which would be finding one of the close-outs for the original SB Live! card. They've been spotted selling for as little as ten dollars and are known to work and play well with those KX drivers.
For hookup, I'd recommend going from the Live card's S/PDIF output to the E-MU's S/PDIF input using one simple 75 ohm "Spudiff" cable that has RCA connectors at each end. This will bypass the needless Digital-To-Analog-to-Digital conversion and results in NO NOISE. But you could also use analog line out to line in connections, too.
Again I stipulate that you do not need to go to all this trouble anymore, one can indeed play DXi and VSTi synths in realtime using E-MU ASIO drivers, its done everyday.
--Mac
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rharv and Mac, thanks for the replies. The computer is running on Windows XP, SP 2. I'm not much of a keyboardist, but got a 61 key midi controller for not too much. Mac, what you describe is what I thought I could do (and what I'd rather do) - play Forte dxi without appreciable latency. I'm going to set up all my stuff tonight and see if I can't get it to work. I was kind of afraid that trying to install a Soundblaster along with my e-mu might be problematic for reasons you mention (software). I'll report back again later.
thanks,
Bruce
Macbook Pro 2018
2.6 GHz 6-core Intel Core i7, 16 GB RAM
OS Monterey
BIAB for Mac 2022
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Bruce. If you're using the keyboard for recording only then try this one. Shut off the midi out from the computer
Turn up the volume on your keyboard
Record your song
Hit the playback button It should all be right in sync. And remember what Mac said. Don't use the MSSynth driver for any kind of recording. Sheesh! I don't use that for anything. I use the Coyote Forte synth and the VSC DXi synths. Also use a lot of the Real Instruments. I think Pgmusic is fast becoming the holy grail of recording software for home computers. If Peter and company were to work hard on it they could easily break into the professional bracket. They have the skills and man-power to do it, but it would probably take away from their home market. (Hope that never happens. 
Russ Anyday above ground is a good day Computer is Hp Pavillion Vision 6 Ghz quad core AMD processor 8 Gig memory 1 TB hard drive 6 GB hard drive Windows 7 Premium Loose nut behind the keyboard 
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PG Music Staff
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>> This results in very noticeable delay from pressing a keyboard key until a sound is heard (even using ASIO).
As Mac has pointed out, ASIO should give you under 10ms latency, which is not going to be *noticable.
=====================================
* 10ms latency is "small".
Sound travel at 1,100 feet per second, which is 1 foot per ms. So if you are playing live on-stage with a guy 10 feet from you, there is a 10ms latency right there. Or if you are playing live with your guitar amp 10 feet away from you, what you play would take 10ms for you to hear it, since you are 10 feet away from your amp.
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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Thanks everyone for the responses. I bought the keyboard hoping to learn to play it, but was very disappointed to find this delay (seemed like half a second between pressing a key and hearing sound). Anyway, I did have a few minutes last night to plug it back in, reset the audio settings, and now it works fine! Maybe I just didn't have the driver (asio) selected properly?
Would the non-asio drivers give this type of result? Also, I'm assuming this is "program specific" so that just because it works with BIAB doesn't mean it would work with other programs (for instance, Beginner Piano Master Class)? I wasn't trying to record, I just wanted to be able to play it "live" with the intent of self-teaching (I play guitar). If another program doesn't use asio drivers, would I then need to try the SB Live or get a hardware synth to get rid of this delay?
Bruce
Macbook Pro 2018
2.6 GHz 6-core Intel Core i7, 16 GB RAM
OS Monterey
BIAB for Mac 2022
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The Microsoft Software Synthesizer is the likely culprit. It has about a half sec delay to it. You likely had that invoked last time.
You can play in realtime using the Windows (BB still calls it "MME" for some reason) sound drivers, too, but if you have ASIO available, I say use that instead.
--Mac
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I am running 2009.5 on windows vista home prem x64. it came with a realtek soundcard (part of motherboard). The latency drives me nuts in Live play with baib.
I am mostly interested in recording tracks with the keyboard while using REalBand. I am aware that the action does get recorded in time and it will play back in time. However, I would love to remove the latency instead of your suggestion to listen to my keyboard instead of the computer sound
Do you suggest I get a new sound card that uses the Asio driver?
Sal
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I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Expert
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Mac, you mentioned in the above post the "S/PDIF input using one simple 75 ohm "Spudiff" cable that has RCA connectors at each end."
Is there any difference between this and a "Fiber optic "cable S/PDIF as far as quality of sound or speed? Are they both digital?
Wyndham
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They are both digital connects that transfer the same information, one with light and the other with electrons over conductors.
--Mac
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