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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Aug 2009
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Joined: Aug 2009
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[Warning: New User]
So, I'm loving a lot of these RealTracks/RealStyles, but I've got a problem. If there's a specific phrase generated that I'm just wild about, how do I save it so that BIAB will remember not only the general track *style*, but also that specific *phrase* at that specific *point*? I'm aware of the "One WAV per track" option when rendering to WAV, but gee, why can't I just save it as a regular BIAB song? I tried that, but whether I then clicked "Play" or "Replay", it always re-arranges all the phrases.
For example, if I've got "_POPFAST Fast Pop w Dreamy ElGt (165 RS)" loaded as the style, the Strings part will play the RealTrack guitar style "Guitar, Electric, Rhythm Dreamy Ev 165", which is fine. But every now and then, it'll play a GORGEOUS phrase that I love, but I'm sort of at the mercy of BIAB as to whether I can make it permanent. On my hard drive, in the "Guitar, Electric, Rhythm Dreamy Ev 165" folder, there are like 36 variations, with names like "EG3211", etc. Well, once BIAB has generated a RealTrack, isn't there somewhere where you can inspect exactly which variations are being used at specific bars, and then generate your favorite ones at whatever bars you want? Or is this more a job for RealBand? I saw that you can re-generate for specific regions/bars in RealBand. I guess BIAB can't do that?
In other words, I'm seeking more control over these great RealTracks at the bar or segment level, rather than just at the general style level.
Thanks for any insights.
- Bob K.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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You could use RealBand to cut and paste the generated snippet wherever you like on a track...
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Welcome, Bob K.
You can freeze a song to the one audio track in BIAB (see Help, Real Tracks), but at this time you do not have control over the content of individual phrases of Real Tracks.
I am concerned that you say RePlay "re-arranges the phrases" (BIAB calls this "regenerates the track") just like Play does. It should not be doing that, unless you have made changes to the song or to the choice of Real Track, or loaded the song back into BIAB. If the RePlay function is really not working for you, then do Options, Return to Factory Settings and try again.
Definitely explore Real Band. Your questions sound like you will want the control only a sequencer can give.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Aug 2009
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OP
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Just tested it again, and it's true: As you said, Matt - while hitting RePlay won't trigger a re-generation, simply saving and re-loading the song back into BIAB is apparently regarded (by BIAB) as being on a par with having made changes to the song or to the choice of Real Track. Wow. I'm not sure if I know of any other program that sees closing/opening a saved project as akin to making an edit. That's like having Photoshop save everything about the image you've been working on...except for the colors. Musical notes and phrases do exactly that - they color your composition! Argghhhh.
Well, I guess that's one more for the Wishlist forum. "Save my song exactly as I left it please".
I mean, as it stands now, if I'm doing a ballad, I can have the most perfect little jangles and fingerpicking and tremolos going on, and then when I save and re-open, it's all gone and I'll start getting blues notes and jazz things that don't fit the song at all. Is there not a way to at least tell BIAB not to generate blues notes or jazz stuff, if it's going to insist on re-generating every time I re-open something?
And Mac, thanks - RealBand may be my way out... provided it'll save my copy/paste edits the way I left it. We'll see. :|
- Bob K.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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...and just to clarify: in my original post, when I appeared to be saying that RePlay "always re-arranges all the phrases", what I meant was that after I had *saved and re-opened*, neither Play nor RePlay would give me what I had when I originally saved the song, before re-opening.
- Bob K.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Yes, as I suspected.
This is normal behavior for BIAB. Think of it as saving the song instructions rather than the actual selected phrases from Real Tracks (what you think of as the whole project), thereby saving a great deal of file space. In addition, for many users, the randomization of what you get every time you press Play is a desired feature.
You really do need to use Real Band or another sequencer program if you want to save and manipulate the exact sounds. The greatest feature of Real Band is that it reads the BIAB files. Using the two programs together is very powerful.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Bob, Realband will do exactly what you want. By default, it never regenerates a track - even after exiting the program (provided you have saved the file as a SEQ file). Here's a tip, though. To get the song to sound the same in Realband as it does in BIAB, you will need to set the panning and volume of the individual instruments. It is really easy to do. - Open the song in BIAB
- Make a note of each track's pan and vol settings
- Open RB
- Right-click on the vol sliders of individual tracks and enter the BIAB volumes
- Right-click on the panning sliders and enter the individual values found in BIAB
- Save the file as a RB file (it will default to SEQ)
Now you can exit RB and the song will be exactly same when you reopen it. You can also regenerate individual tracks or even parts of individual tracks. It's brilliant software for maximizing the effectiveness of RealTracks. Regards, Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2024
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Well that's good news. Can't wait to try that - thanks. I actually was able to find a thread on this very issue, from about a month ago, by Eddie Hughes. Here's the thread: (A kindred spirit, Eddie Hughes, lamenting the same regeneration issue)PeterGannon himself weighed in on it and confirmed what you guys have been saying here - namely: "...With RealBand, you can get exact arrangements that won't change." Ahh, so happy to have found a way to halt the randomization when I want. Thanks guys. That, coupled with segment-level regeneration, sound perfect for me. - Bob K.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 493
Journeyman
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Journeyman
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If you want the same song to sound the same every time you play it, I'd go with the .wav file generation and play the .wav in Media Player or some other program. You don't need BIAB or RB if you are happy with the song. If you want to change it, then go to BIAB or RB. If you really want to stay in BIAB then freeze the song and play it from there, it is essentially the same as the .wav route. Sometimes we try to make things too complicated and/or use the wrong solution for what we are trying to do. This might be one of those times.
Good luck.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 137
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Hello,
I have been asking for this save feature for realtracks as well, as have a lot of other people.
Though it can be done in real band it would be an important addition to biab, in fact I think no good reason why its not included in the present version. Here's hoping for 2010 biab.
Paddy
Paddy McGurk,
Liverpool,
Don't mention the Beatles!!
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,055
Productor Musical
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Productor Musical
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,055 |
Band in a Box have plenty of save options like ones in "Assign Instruments and Harmonies to Song", there is for example "Save Mixer settings w/each song (Vol,Rev,Pan,Ch)". Whereas the wonderful and amazing advances and improvements in the program in terms of programation we has been witness, it is very probable BIAB design team can assume without problem to add an export or additional save mode similar to SEQ file format which would retain our favorite last regenerated take, it could be loaded back in BIAB and even exported to Real Band. There would be sub-options like "select MIDI/RT instruments will not get regenerated on load" in the case you only want determined instruments to remain intact at reload. Reason I think this way? sometimes and not un-frequently I want stay ONLY in Band in a Box without switching to RB or any other of my DAW, maybe because I don't still need it, maybe because do it could interrupt my creative flow in a strictly musical level. If I want to capture that wonderful regenerated backing track take which match perfectly with that spontaneous solo or melody created in my BIAB song or piece, then being not able to make it would be inconvenient or even annoying. That kind of improves and additions, which expand the freedom of creativity, will look great and worthy in any program new number version ...like Band in a Box 2010 
Gabriel Arellano,
Nucleox Music
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
in fact I think no good reason why its not included in the present version. Here's hoping for 2010 biab.
Paddy
By all means, head on over to the Wishlist with this. However, I did give you what I think is a pretty good reason: file space. Each BIAB song now is a very small MGU or similar file. It contains the instructions to generate the needed tracks, not the audio tracks themselves.
To both Paddy and Carlos, if you start adding the capability of storing individual Real Tracks that can reproduce the song exactly on re-load without regenerating, then the song would have to have at least one audio track (like freezing a song) or worse, one audio track per Real Track instrument so you could continue to work with it. A three minute song with five audiophile Real Tracks might start taking up 150 MB or more of space, instead of the 6 KB it takes now. Even if my numbers are way off, it's still a big difference (25,000 times larger, in that example).
Granted, having a choice is always nice. Just be aware of what you are asking for.
Of course, if we're very lucky, maybe PG Music can figure out a way to save just the instructions of a generated file, not the generated audio. That would be very cool.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2009
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Productor Musical
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Productor Musical
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,055 |
Thanks Matt, your remark about the space that would occupy a saved file with audio data bundled is totally true, it is something which I know perfectly from my beginnings in the field of audio digital recording 22 years ago, therefore I was absolutly aware of that in my last reply. Referring you said maybe PG Music can figure out a way to save just the instructions of a generated file, not the generated audio, that is exactly what I wanted to say, I talk in terms of programation where the experts (I am not) in code can be able to found a solution without save audio data. I think, although I didn´t mention it in detail, in a inner software algorithm able to capture every step and instruction from the randomly regeneration process in order to save it to a small file like MGU or similar ones, then remember and recall everything when reload the song. By the way, and in this I am not sure because I am starting to use Real Band, does SEQ include audio data information? if yes then of course I must to exclude that file format in my post hints.
cheers
Gabriel Arellano,
Nucleox Music
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Yes, we're in agreement, Carlos. Since other software such as SONAR can select audio tracks with non-destructive editing, it must be possible, once the song is first generated. Let's hope.
Funny, I've been playing music professionally since the early 60s, doing audio engineering since the mid 70s and teaching computer programming since the late 70s. They didn't all come together, though, until BIAB.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Nov 2002
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I think that Carlos has hit the nail on the head. When BIAB regenerates a realtrack instrument it is stitching together various segments of larger audio files together into a sequence. If it stores a note of which segments within which audio files it used and the sequence that they were used in (rather than the generated audio file itself) then it should be able to recreate it verbatim the next time the song is opened. Of course if it is not keeping a note of these items right now then it might be a reasonably big job to add that functionality, but it should be acheivable (I guess it then goes in to a prioritisation queue with other development and wish list items).
Generally speaking I have found that the degree of variation between one generation of a realtrack instrument and the next is much less than you would typically get for an equivalent Midi style (solo instruments excluded) and I personally find this greater degree of predictability better but there are still times when a particular phrase that sounded really nice vanishes when the song is saved and retreived (or sometimes a phrase which sounded just 'OK' is replaced with one that does not).
Of course sometimes the opposite happens and the regenerated track sounds nicer than the previous version, but I would prefer this to happen under my control rather than as a result of a file save and re-open.
If I hadn't seen such riches I could live with being poor.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Yes, agreed. If PG Music had such a 'note of segments used', then perhaps it might someday be possible to view it for two different regenerations and edit to insert the ones you liked and delete the ones you didn't like. That would open up some amazing possibilities. It's not so far-fetched. Real Drums now have .TXT files with instructions that you can look at to see where the patterns are coming from. Real Tracks have only the .BT0 files that are not readable.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
By the way, and in this I am not sure because I am starting to use Real Band, does SEQ include audio data information? if yes then of course I must to exclude that file format in my post hints.
cheers
Yes, the SEQ file has everything including any audio tracks. I have some fairly complex projects that have over 20 tracks with both audio and midi using both Real Tracks/Drums, Jamstix, 3 soft synths plus me playing my Kurzweil and a vocalist. It can take two minutes to open one of those files up as a working SEQ. I was trying to send one of those to a forum member in Brazil last year and there was no way to do it as a complete SEQ, it was over 500mb's in size. I had to do it one track at a time and he had to stitch it all back together.
I agree with both you and Matt that it would be cool if Biab could do that but I think if it were reasonably easy, they would have done that instead of incorporating the freeze function last year.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Apprentice
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A couple of further thoughts about keeping a track of the segments used and the sequence that they were used in:
1) I don't see why it couldn't work for the midi styles instruments as well as the realtrack ones
2) (assuming that each 'generation' required a relatively small data file to record this information) it could allow you to step back through prior versions either one instrument at a time or for the whole song. This would be a cool feature. At the moment when I get something sounding 'pretty good' I tend to stop experimenting in case I lose it. If I had the freedom to say "actually the one two generations ago was the best" and to go back to it then that would allow me to play with the song more freely and (hopefully) lead to better results. This kind of multi-level undo would probably only work within a single session and a single song but it would be really useful.
If I hadn't seen such riches I could live with being poor.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Enthusiast
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I don't see any problem with 150mb project files in today's era of terabyte drives. I deal with those in programs, video files and photoshop projects. I would not have a problem with even bigger files at the project source level which is what we are talking.
Programming deals with this since always. The source files are not a problem for size since there is only one. The executable files or in sound the performance file in wav or wma etc are the compiled files. That is where the files should be small and fast as possible. The size of the source is really of no concern. And certainly not today with the current drives and fast processors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
If I had the freedom to say "actually the one two generations ago was the best" and to go back to it then that would allow me to play with the song more freely and (hopefully) lead to better results. This kind of multi-level undo would probably only work within a single session and a single song but it would be really useful.
This is one of many Biab wish list items that were addressed in Real Band and is the reason I use it much more than Biab lately. New people seem to completely overlook RB. It combines Biab with a full blown 48 track audio/midi sequencer. You can create multiple tracks and takes using different Biab styles for as many instruments as you have room for. It does not automatically regenerate anything unless you tell it to. That means that you can create discrete 1 or 8 or 22 or however many takes of a certain instrument part and keep the one you like or even better, start cutting and pasting from all those tracks to create one really hot one. Then you delete the ones you don't want to free up those tracks and do it again for another part. You don't have to do it one part at a time though. The first 8 tracks in RB are "convertible" tracks that can be all Biab or not. If you choose all, then it's just like Biab, RB will generate the whole arrangement based on the same chord grid Biab uses.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
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Band-in-a-Box 2025 French Version is Here!
Bonjour à tous,
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 pour Windows est disponible en Français.
Le téléchargement se fait à partir du site PG Music
Pour ceux qui auraient déjà acheté la version 2025 de Band-in-a-Box (et qui donc ont une version anglaise), il est possible de "franciser" cette version avec les patchs suivants:
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Voilà, enjoy!
Band-in-a-Box 2025 German Version is Here!
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PowerTracks Pro Audio 2025 is here! This new version introduces many features, including VST3 support, the ability to load or import a .FLAC file, a reset option for track height in the Tracks window, a taller Timeline on the Notation window toolbar, new freeze buttons in the Tracks window, three toolbar modes (two rows, single row, and none), the improved Select Patch dialog with text-based search and numeric patch display, a new button in the DirectX/VST window to copy an effects group, and more!
First-time packages start at only $49. Already a PowerTracks Pro Audio user? Upgrade for as little as $29!
www.pgmusic.com/powertracks.htm
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Band-in-a-Box® for iOS® :Summary video.
Check out the forum post for more information.
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