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Please, please can we have support for Diminished Triads!
Background
==========
This is, what has become, my yearly plead for pgmusic to support diminished triads in BIAB!
I would like to see support for Diminished Triads 1-b3-b5 and not just for Diminished 7ths or Half Diminished (m7b5) Chords.
Currently Diminished is interpreted as Diminished 7th.
BIAB Supports these triads:
Major Triad: 1-3-5 : e.g. C
Minor Triad: 1-b3-5 : e.g. Cm
Augmented Triad: 1-3-#5 : e.g. Caug
And these two variations:
Suspended Triad: 1-4-5 : e.g. Csus
Major Triad with lowered 5th: 1-3-b5 : e.g. C5b
Rational:
The Diminished Triad is the basis for the Diminished 7th and The Half-Diminished (m7b5) and is often used in pop piano charts where basic triads are the staple chords.
Current Work around:
Use either dim (which is dim7th) or m7b5 depending on chords function in chart and then if necessary edit the exported midi file to remove the 7th.
Solution
=======
IMO, The simplest solution to support Diminished Triads would be along
the lines of:
1. In preferences have a check box which says "Interpret Dim as Dim7"
This box would be checked defaulted and ensure complete backward
compatibility.
2. Unchecking the box would mean that all Dim chords are interpreted
as 1-b3-b5
3. Change existing Diminished (dim) code to be used when Diminished
7th (dim7) is typed.
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I wish to add my support for Alisdair's request for support of diminished triads separate from fully diminished 7th chords and half-diminished 7th chords.
Alisdair's suggestion of a user-selectable option to make the "dim" suffix be a diminished triad and that "dim7" would be necessary for a full diminshed 7th and the current "m7b5" would still be necessary for the half-diminshed 7th.
OR
leave dim as it is (full diminished 7th chord) in order to maintain perfect backward compatibility with already existing files, but add the following chord suffix: dimt (t for triad) and interpret it as Root, b3, b5 (C Eb Gb, for example).
OR
simply change the behavior of the program so that "dim" implies diminshed triad, "dim7" is necessary for full-diminshed-7th and the current "m7b5" still be the norm for half-diminshed-7ths.
I realize that with the vast number of BIAB files already in existence, many of which want the full diminished 7th where the chord suffix dim is used, any change in the handling of diminished chords will create havoc for some. But in my opinion adding this capability will enhance the program and we should all be able to deal with it.
And the use of the shortcuts file can allow people to adjust things to their own way of working, once the diminshed triad is functional in the program.
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It baffles me that something so basic to how Western harmony is organized, labeled, and presented in almost any theory book you care to llook at, can be overlooked in BIAB. Before you even come to considering 7th chords as a student, you encounter the deminished triad.
So yes, please add this capability to the program!
It's fundamental!
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I'd like to see BIAB support Diminished Triads too
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Yes, this is a glaring omission. Please correct. BTW, there is yet another triad, the suspended 2nd; 1-2-5. I think this one is supported.
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Add my support for Diminished Triads.
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Yes, I agree. Diminished Triads should be supported properly.
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Let me add my support. I have on occasion wished for a diminished triad option as opposed to a diminished seventh chord.
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Good idea. Diminished triads in BB.
Vote for this...
Dragan
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Tröten und tröten lassen.
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Specifying triads more fully and accurately in contrast to 4 or more note chords would be great!
I'm thinking of how that would work so well in combination with the also much wished for ability to use more than 4 chords per bar.
Even more specifically for "fast" walk down and walk ups. ( For a guitarist with less than olympic level gymnastic fingers -like me- being able to specify switching using the triad as opposed to 4 note chords or barre chords could be helpful )
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Please, please can we have support for Diminished Triads!
I'm with Alisdair!
Thanks,
Songhammer
Phoenix, AZ
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Yes, support for dim triads would be good. Others on this thread have suggested ways to implement.
Also, support for "add" chords, such as add9 or add13.
Thanks for the consideration.
Randy
Idaho Falls, ID
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I'm with Alisdair too. Diminished triads have been lacking way too long. Please make it happen in the next version of BIAB
Philip van Galen
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Suggest we have Diminished Triads, Please.
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I also would like to see support for Diminished triads.
Also, I would like to see please, for more realistic dynamics, the ability to automate level changes for the `band'.
Ron Becker
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I wish to add my support for Alisdair's request for support of diminished triads separate from fully diminished 7th chords and half-diminished 7th chords.
Victor
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Perhaps 2008/9 will see PGmusic's BIAB support of diminished triads? So I'm highlighting my now yearly plead on PGmusic's BIAB wishlist. 
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I agree. We need the choice...
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The capability is already there for diminished triads. I've experimented with "edit - jazz down" and "edit - jazz up" and found that the dim triads will play under jazz down. I used the jazz modern trio style and you can hear, particularly in the bass line, that in the jazz down mode the dim 7th is not played. Switch to jazz up and the dim 7th is played. Later, Ray
Asus Q500A i7 Win 10 64 bit 8GB ram 750 HD 15.5" touch screen, BIAB 2017, Casio PX 5s, Xw P1, Center Point Stereo SS V3 and EWI 4000s.
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That doesn't seem to work for me. I tried your suggestion using the style "J_MODTRI" with the following progressions:
CMaj7 | Bdim | Cmaj7 | Bdim |
"Jazz it down" results in the chord progression:
C | Bdim | C | Bdim |
and the Bdim still plays the dim7th G# (Abb)
Then I tried:
CMaj7 | Bm7b5 | Cmaj7 | Bm7b5 |
"Jazz it down" results in the chord progression:
C | Bm7b5 | C | Bm7b5 |
and the Bm7b5 still plays the 7th A
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Don't know what to say except that it works for me. Being a jazz pianist however, I rarely play a straight dim chord, not without some alterations. Later, Ray
Asus Q500A i7 Win 10 64 bit 8GB ram 750 HD 15.5" touch screen, BIAB 2017, Casio PX 5s, Xw P1, Center Point Stereo SS V3 and EWI 4000s.
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I don't understand the problem. I use diminished chords all the time, and they work just fine. Just type in dim or o as shorthand.
Mike Laatz
Cape Town
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Mike
When you type in dim or o as shorthand, you get Dim7th 1-b3-b5-bb7 chords not Dim Triads 1-b3-b5.
What we're asking for is support for diminished triads.
BIAB supports all the other triads apart from diminished.
Pop, gospel and classical music often use the basic diminished triad without the 7th.
This might not be important to you if you only play jazz as jazz generally extends the chords to include the 7ths, 9th etc.
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Nice to have more choices !
PhL
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Another vote for the diminished triad here.
The harder I work the luckier I get.
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Yes please. I'd like to see a diminished triad too. It's chord II in minor keys and equally important as chord II in major keys.
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2026
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Quote:
Yes, this is a glaring omission. Please correct. BTW, there is yet another triad, the suspended 2nd; 1-2-5. I think this one is supported.
The suspended 2nd 'triad' of which you wrote is actually a major triad with an added 9th - it is entered normally as "C2", "D2", etc., and includes the maor third. In the best of nomenclature it is abbreviated C(9), D(9), etc., respectively.
Greetings in the Resurrected Christ from the resurrected angel of Exodus 23:20.
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Quote:
Yes, support for dim triads would be good. Others on this thread have suggested ways to implement.
Also, support for "add" chords, such as add9 or add13.
Thanks for the consideration.
There is support for C(9) and C(13) already.
Greetings in the Resurrected Christ from the resurrected angel of Exodus 23:20.
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Quote:
The suspended 2nd 'triad' of which you wrote is actually a major triad with an added 9th - it is entered normally as "C2", "D2", etc., and includes the maor third. In the best of nomenclature it is abbreviated C(9), D(9), etc., respectively.
The 9 should also include the dominant 7th.
The 2 chord should not.
Whether of not you get a third with the 2 chord is a function of the chosen Style because of the patterns and mapping inside the style file.
--Mac
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Quote:
Quote:
The suspended 2nd 'triad' of which you wrote is actually a major triad with an added 9th - it is entered normally as "C2", "D2", etc., and includes the maor third. In the best of nomenclature it is abbreviated C(9), D(9), etc., respectively.
The 9 should also include the dominant 7th.
The 2 chord should not.
Whether of not you get a third with the 2 chord is a function of the chosen Style because of the patterns and mapping inside the style file.
--Mac
Not if it is an added 9th to the triad.
Greetings in the Resurrected Christ from the resurrected angel of Exodus 23:20.
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Then it should be notated as "Cadd9" not "C9".
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I’m sure someone will correct me if I’m wrong but doesn’t a C2 chord consist of the notes C-E-G-D in any order (or inversion), i.e. C-D-E-G, E-D-G-C, etc?
Doesn’t a Csus2 chord consist of the notes C-D-G in any order?
Doesn’t a C9 chord consist of the notes C-E-G-Bb-D in any order?
Isn’t a Cadd9 the same as a C2?
Isn’t a Csus9 the same as a Csus2?
The bumper sticker said "I'm a veterinarian, therefore I can drive like an animal".
Suddenly I realized how many proctologists are on the road.
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Quote:
Then it should be notated as "Cadd9" not "C9".
The parentheses indicates it is added, though this usage is not supported by Brandt and Roehmer.
Greetings in the Resurrected Christ from the resurrected angel of Exodus 23:20.
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Quote:
I’m sure someone will correct me if I’m wrong but doesn’t a C2 chord consist of the notes C-E-G-D in any order (or inversion), i.e. C-D-E-G, E-D-G-C, etc?
Doesn’t a Csus2 chord consist of the notes C-D-G in any order?
Doesn’t a C9 chord consist of the notes C-E-G-Bb-D in any order?
Isn’t a Cadd9 the same as a C2?
Isn’t a Csus9 the same as a Csus2?
C2 in its simplest form relates "C and D" only, as an interval, which is still a chord. C2 as a triad with the "2" substituting for the third is the same as Gsus4, so in this regard "C2" is unnecessary. C2 as a triad with the third is the same as a C triad with an added 9th, C(9). Tertian harmony shows stacked thirds, used extensively for many hundreds of years, as a basis for chord building. The most popular form of chord suffixes for many years has included an array of inconsistencies that serve more to perplex than to concisely notate up to and including the 13th. Use of parentheses only for added notes, the accidentals only for roots, and the use of only "+" and "-" for alterations greatly provides a much clearer picture of the exactness with which the most complex chords can be abbreviated. The order of the notes may vary but are taught for clarity in the logical series "1,3,5,7,9,11,13". You are correct in the spelling of the C9, more specifically, the C dominant 9th chord. The use of "sus" is only necessary for the "sus4" chords, and thus, can be abbreviated to "4". So a "Csus9" could more easily be written and read with an indicated "C" and a "9" placed over a "4", both numbers being positioned equally above and below the mid axis of the root. The spelling is C,F,G,Bb,D.
Greetings in the Resurrected Christ from the resurrected angel of Exodus 23:20.
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The problem here, I think, is that there is really no one standard for fake chord notation.
As testified by many differing offerings from the various publishers of sheet musics etc.
I like to go with something my old teacher used to preach: "Try to make it an easy read and the musicians will love your arrangements." -- Sometimes that may mean adopting geographic conventions, too. For example, "West Coast" notation typically does things a bit differently from East Coast here in the states. Or the use of the Pipe | chord to depict stacked triads is a convention for some, but I've met others who simply just stared at the page as if it was in a foreign language.
As far as PGMusic products go, I would also like to see the programs able to handle different fake chord notations reliably and as all-inclusive as possible.
I'd also like to be able to add "custom" inputs to the chordlist, that may be the best answer for all concerned.
--Mac
--Mac
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Diminished triads are common in certain styles, and need to be supported. BIAB is not a complete program without them.
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This thread should not fall into oblivion. There are a few issues that are pretty important to the community that did not receive appropriate attention by the program designers to date. Diminished triads sure are essential, as is notation support for compound time signatures.
Martin
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Agreed... There's a workaround solution, involving copying a style, muting or reimporting all the macro based patterns then dropping the 7th from all the patterns using the velocity command, ...
....but who on earth wants to do all that, and change styles at the appropriate point in a song just to acommodate one chord that ought to be supported anyway?
You shouldn't need to.
Regards
Alan
Last edited by alan S.; 12/06/09 06:39 AM.
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I have a feeling that the same applies to the pgmusic staff as well.
Going back thru all of those styles, finding the diminished stuff, changing it, of course they would have to then create a new stylename for each one, for just overwriting the existing would bring complaints from those using them as-is and happy with that result, this is a major situation because it has compounded over years' time.
Maybe development can come up with another way to fix the problem, a piece of "global" code and yet another Preference toggle. That sure would save the manhours.
--Mac
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Mac
Well if the velocity command can be targeted globally at a single midi note (which it is) then another similarly targeted command mapping one note to another or taking it out of the equation completely is surely possible.
These functions aren't exactly new in midi terms. Cakewalk sonar has had user-defined re- mapping of notes from one scale to another for years, and what we're talking about (a sort of search and replace or search and destroy!) isn't really any different.
Regards
Alan
Last edited by alan S.; 12/06/09 04:15 PM.
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Possible vs Probable, Alan.
Even automated, there would still be that need to have the old styles do what they did and thus renaming all the new ones.
Perhaps there could be a global routine applied? That would seem to have the most merit and get to the finish line, eh?
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,500
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,500 |
A thought just occurred. I wonder if any of the pianists on the Real Tracks differentiated between dim and dim7? I suppose it wouldn't make a difference because the pgshortc.txt file translates dim to dim7, so internally they might be programmed to be the same, even in Real Tracks. But maybe not. Just a thought.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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PowerTracks Pro 2026 for Windows is Here!
PowerTracks 2026 is here—bringing powerful new enhancements designed to make your production workflow faster, smoother, and more intuitive than ever.
The enhanced Mixer now shows Track Type and Instrument icons for instant track recognition, while a new grid option simplifies editing views. Non-floating windows adopt a modern title bar style, replacing the legacy blue bar.
The Master Volume is now applied at the end of the audio chain for consistent levels and full-signal master effects.
Tablature now includes a “Save bends when saving XML” option for improved compatibility with PG Music tools. Plus, you can instantly match all track heights with a simple Ctrl-release after resizing, and Add2 chords from MGU/SGU files are now fully supported... and more!
Get started today—first-time packages start at just $49.
Already using PowerTracks Pro Audio? Upgrade for as little as $29 and enjoy the latest improvements!
Order now!
Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Windows Special Offers End Tomorrow (January 15th, 2026) at 11:59 PM PST!
Time really is running out! Save up to 50% on Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® upgrades and receive a FREE Bonus PAK—only when you order by 11:59 PM PST on Thursday, January 15, 2026!
We've added many major new features and new content in a redesigned Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®!
Version 2026 introduces a modernized GUI redesign across the program, with updated toolbars, refreshed windows, smoother workflows, and a new Dark Mode option. There’s also a new side toolbar for quicker access to commonly used windows, and the new Multi-View feature lets you arrange multiple windows as layered panels without overlap, making it easier to customize your workspace.
Another exciting new addition is the new AI-Notes feature, which can transcribe polyphonic audio into MIDI. You can view the results in notation or play them back as MIDI, and choose whether to process an entire track or focus on specific parts like drums, bass, guitars/piano, or vocals. There's over 100 new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®.
There's an amazing collection of new content too, including 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two RealDrums Stems sets, XPro Styles PAK 10, Xtra Styles PAK 21, and much more!
Upgrade your Band-in-a-Box for Windows to save up to 50% on most Band-in-a-Box® 2026 upgrade packages!
Plus, when you order your Band-in-a-Box® 2026 upgrade during our special, you'll receive a Free Bonus PAK of exciting new add-ons.
If you need any help deciding which package is the best option for you, just let us know. We are here to help!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® Special Offers Extended Until January 15, 2026!
Good news! You still have time to upgrade to the latest version of Band-in-a-Box® for Windows® and save. Our Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® special now runs through January 15, 2025!
We've packed Band-in-a-Box® 2026 with major new features, enhancements, and an incredible lineup of new content! The program now sports a sleek, modern GUI redesign across the entire interface, including updated toolbars, refreshed windows, smoother workflows, a new dark mode option, and more. The brand-new side toolbar provides quicker access to key windows, while the new Multi-View feature lets you arrange multiple windows as layered panels without overlap, creating a flexible, clutter-free workspace. We have an amazing new “AI-Notes” feature. This transcribes polyphonic audio into MIDI so you can view it in notation or play it back as MIDI. You can process an entire track (all pitched instruments and drums) or focus on individual parts like drums, bass, guitars/piano, or vocals. There's an amazing collection of new content too, including 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two RealDrums Stems sets, XPro Styles PAK 10, Xtra Styles PAK 21, and much more!
There are over 100 new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®.
When you order purchase Band-in-a-Box® 2026 before 11:59 PM PST on January 15th, you'll also receive a Free Bonus PAK packed with exciting new add-ons.
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® today! Check out the Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all the purchase options available.
Happy New Year!
Thank you for being part of the Band-in-a-Box® community.
Wishing you and yours a very happy 2026—Happy New Year from all of us at PG Music!
Season's Greetings!
Wishing everyone a happy, healthy holiday season—thanks for being part of our community!
The office will be closed for Christmas Day, but we will be back on Boxing Day (Dec 26th) at 6:00am PST.
Team PG
Band-in-a-Box 2026 Video: The Newly Designed Piano Roll Window
In this video, we explore the updated Piano Roll, complete with a modernized look and exciting new features. You’ll see new filtering options that make it easy to focus on specific note groups, smoother and more intuitive note entry and editing, and enhanced options for zooming, looping, and more.
Watch the video.
You can see all the 2026 videos on our forum!
Band-in-a-Box 2026 Video: AI Stems & Notes - split polyphonic audio into instruments and transcribe
This video demonstrates how to use the new AI-Notes feature together with the AI-Stems splitter, allowing you to select an audio file and have it separated into individual stems while transcribing each one to its own MIDI track. AI-Notes converts polyphonic audio—either full mixes or individual instruments—into MIDI that you can view in notation or play back instantly.
Watch the video.
You can see all the 2026 videos on our forum!
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