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The capability is already there for diminished triads. I've experimented with "edit - jazz down" and "edit - jazz up" and found that the dim triads will play under jazz down. I used the jazz modern trio style and you can hear, particularly in the bass line, that in the jazz down mode the dim 7th is not played. Switch to jazz up and the dim 7th is played. Later, Ray
Asus Q500A i7 Win 10 64 bit 8GB ram 750 HD 15.5" touch screen, BIAB 2017, Casio PX 5s, Xw P1, Center Point Stereo SS V3 and EWI 4000s.
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That doesn't seem to work for me. I tried your suggestion using the style "J_MODTRI" with the following progressions:
CMaj7 | Bdim | Cmaj7 | Bdim |
"Jazz it down" results in the chord progression:
C | Bdim | C | Bdim |
and the Bdim still plays the dim7th G# (Abb)
Then I tried:
CMaj7 | Bm7b5 | Cmaj7 | Bm7b5 |
"Jazz it down" results in the chord progression:
C | Bm7b5 | C | Bm7b5 |
and the Bm7b5 still plays the 7th A
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Don't know what to say except that it works for me. Being a jazz pianist however, I rarely play a straight dim chord, not without some alterations. Later, Ray
Asus Q500A i7 Win 10 64 bit 8GB ram 750 HD 15.5" touch screen, BIAB 2017, Casio PX 5s, Xw P1, Center Point Stereo SS V3 and EWI 4000s.
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I don't understand the problem. I use diminished chords all the time, and they work just fine. Just type in dim or o as shorthand.
Mike Laatz
Cape Town
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Mike
When you type in dim or o as shorthand, you get Dim7th 1-b3-b5-bb7 chords not Dim Triads 1-b3-b5.
What we're asking for is support for diminished triads.
BIAB supports all the other triads apart from diminished.
Pop, gospel and classical music often use the basic diminished triad without the 7th.
This might not be important to you if you only play jazz as jazz generally extends the chords to include the 7ths, 9th etc.
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Nice to have more choices !
PhL
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Another vote for the diminished triad here.
The harder I work the luckier I get.
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Yes please. I'd like to see a diminished triad too. It's chord II in minor keys and equally important as chord II in major keys.
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2024
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Quote:
Yes, this is a glaring omission. Please correct. BTW, there is yet another triad, the suspended 2nd; 1-2-5. I think this one is supported.
The suspended 2nd 'triad' of which you wrote is actually a major triad with an added 9th - it is entered normally as "C2", "D2", etc., and includes the maor third. In the best of nomenclature it is abbreviated C(9), D(9), etc., respectively.
Greetings in the Resurrected Christ from the resurrected angel of Exodus 23:20.
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Quote:
Yes, support for dim triads would be good. Others on this thread have suggested ways to implement.
Also, support for "add" chords, such as add9 or add13.
Thanks for the consideration.
There is support for C(9) and C(13) already.
Greetings in the Resurrected Christ from the resurrected angel of Exodus 23:20.
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Quote:
The suspended 2nd 'triad' of which you wrote is actually a major triad with an added 9th - it is entered normally as "C2", "D2", etc., and includes the maor third. In the best of nomenclature it is abbreviated C(9), D(9), etc., respectively.
The 9 should also include the dominant 7th.
The 2 chord should not.
Whether of not you get a third with the 2 chord is a function of the chosen Style because of the patterns and mapping inside the style file.
--Mac
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Quote:
Quote:
The suspended 2nd 'triad' of which you wrote is actually a major triad with an added 9th - it is entered normally as "C2", "D2", etc., and includes the maor third. In the best of nomenclature it is abbreviated C(9), D(9), etc., respectively.
The 9 should also include the dominant 7th.
The 2 chord should not.
Whether of not you get a third with the 2 chord is a function of the chosen Style because of the patterns and mapping inside the style file.
--Mac
Not if it is an added 9th to the triad.
Greetings in the Resurrected Christ from the resurrected angel of Exodus 23:20.
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Then it should be notated as "Cadd9" not "C9".
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I’m sure someone will correct me if I’m wrong but doesn’t a C2 chord consist of the notes C-E-G-D in any order (or inversion), i.e. C-D-E-G, E-D-G-C, etc?
Doesn’t a Csus2 chord consist of the notes C-D-G in any order?
Doesn’t a C9 chord consist of the notes C-E-G-Bb-D in any order?
Isn’t a Cadd9 the same as a C2?
Isn’t a Csus9 the same as a Csus2?
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Quote:
Then it should be notated as "Cadd9" not "C9".
The parentheses indicates it is added, though this usage is not supported by Brandt and Roehmer.
Greetings in the Resurrected Christ from the resurrected angel of Exodus 23:20.
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Quote:
I’m sure someone will correct me if I’m wrong but doesn’t a C2 chord consist of the notes C-E-G-D in any order (or inversion), i.e. C-D-E-G, E-D-G-C, etc?
Doesn’t a Csus2 chord consist of the notes C-D-G in any order?
Doesn’t a C9 chord consist of the notes C-E-G-Bb-D in any order?
Isn’t a Cadd9 the same as a C2?
Isn’t a Csus9 the same as a Csus2?
C2 in its simplest form relates "C and D" only, as an interval, which is still a chord. C2 as a triad with the "2" substituting for the third is the same as Gsus4, so in this regard "C2" is unnecessary. C2 as a triad with the third is the same as a C triad with an added 9th, C(9). Tertian harmony shows stacked thirds, used extensively for many hundreds of years, as a basis for chord building. The most popular form of chord suffixes for many years has included an array of inconsistencies that serve more to perplex than to concisely notate up to and including the 13th. Use of parentheses only for added notes, the accidentals only for roots, and the use of only "+" and "-" for alterations greatly provides a much clearer picture of the exactness with which the most complex chords can be abbreviated. The order of the notes may vary but are taught for clarity in the logical series "1,3,5,7,9,11,13". You are correct in the spelling of the C9, more specifically, the C dominant 9th chord. The use of "sus" is only necessary for the "sus4" chords, and thus, can be abbreviated to "4". So a "Csus9" could more easily be written and read with an indicated "C" and a "9" placed over a "4", both numbers being positioned equally above and below the mid axis of the root. The spelling is C,F,G,Bb,D.
Greetings in the Resurrected Christ from the resurrected angel of Exodus 23:20.
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The problem here, I think, is that there is really no one standard for fake chord notation.
As testified by many differing offerings from the various publishers of sheet musics etc.
I like to go with something my old teacher used to preach: "Try to make it an easy read and the musicians will love your arrangements." -- Sometimes that may mean adopting geographic conventions, too. For example, "West Coast" notation typically does things a bit differently from East Coast here in the states. Or the use of the Pipe | chord to depict stacked triads is a convention for some, but I've met others who simply just stared at the page as if it was in a foreign language.
As far as PGMusic products go, I would also like to see the programs able to handle different fake chord notations reliably and as all-inclusive as possible.
I'd also like to be able to add "custom" inputs to the chordlist, that may be the best answer for all concerned.
--Mac
--Mac
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Diminished triads are common in certain styles, and need to be supported. BIAB is not a complete program without them.
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This thread should not fall into oblivion. There are a few issues that are pretty important to the community that did not receive appropriate attention by the program designers to date. Diminished triads sure are essential, as is notation support for compound time signatures.
Martin
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Agreed... There's a workaround solution, involving copying a style, muting or reimporting all the macro based patterns then dropping the 7th from all the patterns using the velocity command, ...
....but who on earth wants to do all that, and change styles at the appropriate point in a song just to acommodate one chord that ought to be supported anyway?
You shouldn't need to.
Regards
Alan
Last edited by alan S.; 12/06/09 06:39 AM.
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