PG Music Home Forums General Discussion Off-Topic Wanted: Advice on Ac. Guitar purchase

Hi,
I'm looking to buy real nice Acoustic Guitar. Something like a Martin, or a Laravee. Something around $2K. But I also saw these CG (Composite Guitars www.caguitars.com/ )

Has anyone had any experience with these Composite Guitars (the advantage looks to be durability - dont have to worry about humidity and temperature etc.). The one I played sounded real nice, though lacked the woody "overtones' of the Martin.

This one would be used mainly for finger-style playing (pop, country, jazz).

Any advice out there?

Hi Peter. I have no clue what makes a good guitar, but my wife does. She's a pro singer/songwriter finger-style guitarist who has played guitars by Martin, LoPrinze, Graven and others, but she now uses two Rainsong guitars. They are graphite. She likes them because they are practically indestructible, and they stand up well to the stress of repeated alternate tunings which she does differently on nearly every song. Apparently they don't warp so there is no truss rod. They seem to hold tunings pretty well in all conditions, at least to my ear.

The Rainsong guitars have a Fishman pickup, or at least hers did. When I record her, I mix about 70% acoustic mic and 30% line in. The bass is phenomenal yet clear.

peter,
the martin d35 is a beautiful sounding instrument imho although a little more money. around us$3000 with hard case. i don't know anything about the new composites. but the wood top sound is hard to beat. i have owned both the gibson hummingbird and the dove and they are great-sounding guitars in your target price range.

Interesting site. The name implies only acoustic guitars yet the first guitar displayed, 'Blade', is a solid electric? As the Romans used to say: Caveat Emptor (Buyer Beware)

Maybe that Oliver Gannon guy would be good for advice.

Art & Lutherie Guitars have an interesting website. I was on a drive about in Quebec and dropped in a few years ago, but I think their prices are below your 'cough' budget. Lots of my friends have Godins. For what it's worth.

My guitar player can't compete with me for beers at the gig because he's in a small black hard drive that says PGMusic on it.

Here is a good one. http://www.taylorguitars.com/Guitars/Acoustic/ Martins are OK too. George sold his D45 for $70,000. July was mad because she wanted it but offered only $45,000. I think you can do better at Taylor.

Peter,

As far as non-wood - I have played a Rainsong, and it played well and sounded good - not sure if I would buy one. You can't beat a Gibson. Takamine has some great playing guitars for a little less money. I have a Sea Gull with a cedar top that I play quite a bit - just a personal taste - I really like the sound of cedar. I am going to attempt to build a Martin kit this winter - we'll see how that goes.

Good luck in your search.

Peter,

Would the main purpose be for recording, performance, fun at home, or what?



--Mac

You would have to play one to decide. Just think back to the discussions on ovation guitars, some people swore by them, for others they weren't acoustic sounding enough. Take a look at Breedlove, (http://breedlovemusic.com) even the newer "cheaper" (about $1000) are a dream to play. They use the JLD Bridge Truss on some models, which makes them lighter, and you can configure your own custom guitar.

Peter,

Before going further in this discussion - find out who Rainsong and/or Composite says is a qualified luthier in your area for their types of guitars - in case you need some adjustments made. A luthier that can work on the guitar and not violate warranty. If there isn't one, move along - the composite construction will be more hassle than help.

Now, on to traditional wood guitars:

About 7 years ago - I was in the same situation as you.

I was down to Taylor, Martin and Larrivée. For the money at the time, the Larrivée was the only solid wood guitar in the price range I was shopping in. But I had no clue about these Larrivée guitars - I had only seen electric guitars advertised by them in the 1980's.

There was a Taylor that was slightly higher priced, but the wood used on the neck had very open pores and it wasn't finished smoothly. I did like the sound of it. It's 'brighter' than my Larry.

Martins in the price range were actually HPL on the sides & back - High Pressure Laminate - known to the world as 'Formica'.

Larrivée were rather unknown at the time and their price reflected it. I auditioned these 3 guitars side-by-side several times before I went with my gut feeling - the Larrivée for me simply was easiest to play. I wanted to really enjoy playing - so I put that at my top decision maker - ease of play. I thought it was somewhat risky buying a lesser known name, but I've never regretted the decision.

BTW, Larrivée are made in Vancouver and Oxnard California.

Perhaps a more difficult question is to find out what TYPE, not brand of acoustic you want to buy.

Again, for me, ease of play was key. I had an Applause (Ovation's Korean-made lower level line), and I never liked the way that it always slid away from me while wearing it. I've since given that guitar away before moving to Colorado. I wanted the guitar to be comfortable while sitting as well as standing - since I play both ways about the same amount of time.

The most comfortable 'traditional' acoustic guitars are what are called 'orchestra' models. These typically have a smaller lower bout and are not quite as deep as the most popular type - Dreadnaught.

Dreadnaught guitars have a less defined 'waist' - that's the curve between the upper and lower bouts. They boom pretty well, and as a result, are used for rhythm purposes by many players. However, at least for me, they are less comfortable to 'wear'.

For maximum in bass - there's Jumbo models. I love the sound, can't stand the lack of comfort or the price - usually these cost somewhat more.

All of the aforementioned companies, Breedlove included, also offer a model that is somewhat in-between these two extremes. Martin calls theirs the 'M' Model, 14 frets to the body. See their chart here:
http://www.mguitar.com/guitars/choosing/size.html

Taylor calls theirs the Grand Concert line, whereas their Grand Auditorium is somewhat like an 'Orchestra model'. They don't have a nice chart like Martin to help you compare shapes and sizes. http://www.taylorguitars.com/Guitars/Acoustic/

For Larrivée, their 'in-between' and probably 2nd most popular type is the 'L' body. That's the type I have. It's a nice compromise between the boom of a Dreadnaught, and the absolute comfort of an Orchestra model. Again, I've never regretted the decision. http://www.larrivee.com/instruments/acoustics/compare.php

Breedlove are regarded highly on the Larrivée forum (the others not so much so except for vintage Martins) and I am not as familiar with their lineup. I do think the JLD bridge system that they use makes sense from an engineering standpoint.

I had the opportunity to get a personal tour of the Oxnard facility by none other than Jean Larrivée himself back 5-6 years ago. I was in L.A. on business, and over the weekend decided to see if the factory was open up in Oxnard - wanted to take a drive along the coast anyways. I drove up with the other engineer I was with, found the address in a new phone book (a couple of the older phone books didn't have it listed) and stopped by. 2 cars in the parking lot - not a good sign. We tried the front lobby door - locked, then looked around to see if there was any other doorways open. None. Went back to the lobby and as we knocked again - we could see through the door that at the end of the hallway someone walked by. We knocked harder, and this somewhat diminutive guy walks up to the door, opens it and asks what we want. It clicks with me that this is THE guy! I tell him our story for the day and he says something like: "I'm kind of busy, but I can give you a nickel tour." Turned out to be around an hour long. Class-act through and through. He was there that day fitting necks to bodies for a special model they had commissioned to honor the opening of that facility - the California model. It was a limited edition, but not a high-priced model. There was the president of the company, hand fitting neck and body dovetail joints. I tried to get a job there on-the-spot as my specialty is noise & vibration control engineering and sound quality engineering. Jean denied me on-the-spot stating that lots of folks have tried to engineer the sound, but it's still 99% art. He goes for high-tech with manufacturing process, but not with the design.

Anyways, try to pick a body type first - then audition, audition, audition. You'll find something that speaks to you before long.

-Scott

I've never regretted buying my Larrivee, I got the D03 with the LR Baggs electronics, and everytime I take it someplace someone inevitably says, "Man that is one great sounding guitar". I compared it to Taylor's, Tak's and some lower end Martins. No comparison. The guys on the Larrivee forum are almost cultish.

Too many good ones to choose from, a friend plays a rainsong and loves it. I got my Larrivee for under a grand, and his rainsong was about $2500.

In the spring of the year in N Wilksboro NC Merlfest put on by Doc Watson, is held. Beside great music there is a tent where different instrument makers come to show their works. Some only make several instruments a year so are from Talyor and others. Even if you get an instrument, it would be worth the time to come, sit in with some groups playing impromptu and inviting who ever knows the music to join in, as well as the tent with some of the most beautiful instruments around.
BTW I was asked to either leave or get a drool cloth, Wyndham

Everything mentioned here so far is really nice and something you would be proud to own and play. Just wanted to put in a plug for Alvarez-Yairi. I have one I bought in 1972 from Dean Markley when he had a tiny music shop in Silicon Valley. I told him I was looking for the guitar I'd play for the rest of my life. He put this one in my hands and I have never regretted it. It has a marvelous, slender V-neck that is the most comfortable I've found on any instrument. As far as I know, Dean was the originator of phosphor-bronze strings. I have never used anything else on this guitar and have been rewarded with a warm, full sound without the boominess associated with some dreadnoughts.

It is a copy of a Martin D-41/45. A-Y began by doing straight copies of Martins; they have moved on into innovative designs with a strong tradition of hand craftsmanship. Their top-end acoustic electrics incorporate Fishman pickups and preamps. You can spend as much as $3K for one of their instruments, but you may not have to. I paid around $500-$700 for my axe 37 years ago. I feel it is fully the equivalent of an instrument costing many times as much in yesterday's dollars or today's.

Artists as diverse as Bob Weir (Grateful Dead) and Jon Anderson (Yes) have endorsed their instruments.

I tried to check for a dealership in your area, but their "Shop" link is temporarily down. You can try later at http://www.alvarezgtr.com/index.php.

I wish you the best of luck in your search and look forward to hearing of your decision.

Richard.

A question like that will get countless replies, and all of them will have a lot of merit because there are a lot of fine acoustic guitars being made right now.

I suggest just playing several that have your interest. There is nothing like holding the guitar in your hands, playing and listening, to determine if you will bond with it.

I love my son's mahogany Martin, but I'm playing a Carvin Cobalt auditorium style because of the sweet tone, excellent workmanship, and price. Price is always a factor for me, sadly.

In any event, the search should be a lot of fun. Good luck on finding the right instrument that can be your friend for life.

Thanks for all the great advice. I'll be trying out some Larrivee's next. As for the model type, the guitar would mainly be for solo fingerstyle playing (e.g. style of Tommy Emmanuel). So it sounds like a shouldn't be looking for a big model (dreadnaught), as that is more for percussive playing, but might be more 'boomy' and less comfortable to hold?

Peter,

For fingerstyle, I think you'll find the majority of players gravitate towards Orchestra models, 'L-body' models for Larrivee, Grand Concert models from Taylor, etc.

These are smaller bodied guitars, or at least have smaller waists than Dreadnaughts. But, please try all types out before you make a decision.

Regarding brand - I wouldn't pay much attention to this at first. Get something that feels comfortable first, then pick a brand.

Hi Peter,
Santa Cruz Guitars are the most exquisit choice for fingerstyle guitarists. Also Taylor, Martin and Larivee and Lowden are a good Choice.

Sandra

Hello Peter I was very impressed by the guitar that my friend Scott Shipley played when he visited the UK last..his set at the Birmingham Symphony Hall at our show was excellent... He played a Rainsong :- http://www.rainsong.com/ they are superb guitars with a very 'Neutral" sound.

BTW I bit the bullet and bought an 'Intel" mac just to use the 2009.5 UltraPlusPAK Hard Drive "Audiophile" Edition that my wife's bought me for my birthday..

Peter,

I own both Martin and Taylor guitars. Both are great guitars but understand that Taylor has a 1-3/4" neck and Martin has a 1-11/16" neck, (at the nut). This may not seem like much, but it can make a difference in the playability.

Both are great guitars, but make sure you like the wider neck of a Taylor.

Martin still has a better acoustic sound, and that's up to the person listening, but that's my opinion.

I really wouldn't consider another brand than these two.

Bob

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These are all good recommendations. For fingerpicking a smaller size is preferred - not the dreadnought that Martin is famous for. Look at the size and shape of the Martin "oo" series. This is the type most often preferred for finger picking. Of course there are always exceptions - my Gretsch dreadnought is my go-to box for anything acoustic, including finger styles.

The feel of the neck and body in the hands is critical, especially for a beginner. No substitute for trying each one, sitting and standing. If the intended user is a beginner, it will be best to visit the store in the company of a trusted teacher, to determine whether the preferred instrument contributes to good playing posture.

Can't go wrong with Gibson. Just be aware that Gibson acoustics are notorious for low volume. Not a problem if the guitar will be used with a mike.

>>> .... the guitar would mainly be for solo fingerstyle playing (e.g. style of Tommy Emmanuel)...>>>

Aim high, brother... [8{>

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