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I mentioned this as part of another thread on Nashville numbers on the Power Tracks wish list but it probably belongs here.....
"Nashville numbers" are great and I'm learning to play from them as my musical skills advance, but I think it would be great if similar concepts could be incorporated into BIAB even further.
Given that there is a long history of music and music education, such as solfege, Kodaly method and shape note singing, that is interval based for both ear training and sight singing rather than being based soley on standard notation, I think this could be of general interest.
The ability to assign, display and print melody notes by number and not just the chords ( per the Nashville number system ) might be a valuable enhancement. There is a program "Tabledit" that will take a melody line and add the note numbers above the staff if one chooses. However it doesn't transform the chords on a sheet to their numeric equivalent on the same sheet.
My user name is Astrummer mainly because that is the way that I primarily play guitar. But one of my "ultimate" goals is to get to chord-melody by ear. The tools in BIAB have been helping me, I think that the additional feature I mentioned would help even more. Perhaps I'm not alone in this....
Anyone else see this as a potentially useful function and want to chime in?
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You know, since we already have a dropdown in notation Opts to allow for identifying the noteheads with note names, either relative to key or relative to fixed note, this should be an easy implementation, there could be another dropdown selection or two there to print the numbers over the noteheads.
And it would be a great addition, IMO.
People learning to transpose on the fly might benefit readily from such, too.
--Mac
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Before this falls onto page 2 and into obscurity...
If only 2 people are fans enough of "note numbers" to speak up I think the chances of this getting implemented aren't very high....
So does anyone else want to add their voice in support of this feature? ( I won't bump it again )
Last edited by astrummer; 01/09/08 06:51 PM.
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I've seen pgmusic development implement things over the years that came from a single request, so don't give up hope. Matter of fact, several features that you know and may use every day came from my single request over the years.
Probably has much to do with how easy such may be to implement, in this case I don't predict it to be asking them to jump through proverbial hoops of programming fire, but we may have to wait until next year's release to see if we get this one or not.
--Mac
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I've never tried this 'note number' method (having been originally trained on classical music and then self-taught with chords and tab) but if it helps, I'm all for it
Follow That Dream Sam Karaoke King -------------------- Turning that corner again - I have to keep following that dream, no matter what
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Don't tell anybody, but the first year of Classical Music Theory is all about converting the notes to numbers.
And the chords to Roman Numerals.
Only real difference is that the classical student must memorize those numbers and be able to identify 'em on the fly.
"Figured Bass" was the method used hundreds of years ago as we use Fake Chords today.
--Mac
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Funny but I really don't remember that. Maybe they just didn't teach it that way at my school? I don't remember ever learning chords as such either, for that matter. Just how to read music and how to play it. Then again, I never learnt a chordal instrument at school (wind and strings, yes but nothing chordal). Had to teach myself guitar and keyboards in the end...
Follow That Dream Sam Karaoke King -------------------- Turning that corner again - I have to keep following that dream, no matter what
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I meant Music School, first year university level, Performance, Music Ed or Composition majors.
There are also various accelerated gymnasium or lower school level music theory courses where an aspiring student can expect to get a head start on the subject.
--Mac
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Ah! Thanks for the clarification 
Follow That Dream Sam Karaoke King -------------------- Turning that corner again - I have to keep following that dream, no matter what
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Quote:
I meant Music School, first year university level, Performance, Music Ed or Composition majors.
There are also various accelerated gymnasium or lower school level music theory courses where an aspiring student can expect to get a head start on the subject.
--Mac
Think Maria Von Trapp in "The Sound of Music", Solfege, Kodaly, basic educational tool, in summary another great feature that could be a part of BIAB....
It would pretty much guarantee that I would buy BIAB 2009....
Last edited by astrummer; 01/10/08 04:16 PM.
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Solfege notation for the chording is included as a new feature in BIAB2008 as "Fixed Do" notation. Kinda neat, but it would be even better if the numbers and solfege were by-the-note also, which is what I think this thread request is about.
--Mac
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Quote:
Solfege notation for the chording is included as a new feature in BIAB2008 as "Fixed Do" notation. Kinda neat, but it would be even better if the numbers and solfege were by-the-note also, which is what I think this thread request is about.
--Mac
Yes, that is the nature of the request, the numbers for the chording along with the numbers for the individual notes.
Last edited by astrummer; 01/10/08 06:26 PM.
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And if the numbering would adjust accordingly for key changes, that would be excellent.
Alistair
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Quote:
And if the numbering would adjust accordingly for key changes, that would be excellent.
Thanks for mentioning that. I would pretty much expect that if the feature were incorporated that it would, but it should not go without saying.
Beyond that perhaps even allowing something in a minor key or modal key to be done in its relative major key. That is something in Am could be done in the key of A with the note A being one, or it could be done in the key of C with the note A being 6. ( For those of us who tend to think in terms of modes more than in terms of keys )
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Yes.
The current Fixed Do algo keeps C as Do no matter what.
I don't find that very useful, but I do understand that there are folks who asked for it, so they must have learned a different way of doing things than I.
Rather than a set of fixed dropdowns, such as we have in the guitar fretboard, I'd like to see the numerical options easily customizable.
Perhaps a "define tonic" or "Tonic is:" dropdown where you pick Root or 6th, something like that.
--And make it smart enough to be able to automatically account for the key changes at any bar, too.
--Mac
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Then it seems that I have learned this (without realising it), through my personal study of chordal instruments and arranging. Is this the same as saying 'I-V-ii-vi-IV-V7-I'?? I certainly know that Am is VIm / vi (and therefore 6) in the key of C...
Follow That Dream Sam Karaoke King -------------------- Turning that corner again - I have to keep following that dream, no matter what
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The numbers are the same whether Roman Numerals (classical notation) or Arabic (jazz and pop, "Nashville" notation).
Knowing the numbers for all keys is the fastest way to do transposing on the fly.
"Fixed DO" is a bit different, the DO is always a C, RE always a D, etc.
--Mac
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Wee! Wow! Wahay! Ok then... 
Follow That Dream Sam Karaoke King -------------------- Turning that corner again - I have to keep following that dream, no matter what
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PG, please visit this wiki page Numbered Musical Notation for detailed explanation and samples. Many chinese hymnals are printed in this format. This notation system is akin to Nashville system for Chords and hence is great for computerised classification of songs in BB. Quote:
Here is quote from the wiki:
An index using the numbered notation allows us to find a song if we remember the tune but not the name. To appreciate that, we can look at an example. A children's song book may have an index like this:
|1· 1· |1 23· | Row, row, row your boat
|1 1 5 5 |6 6 5 - | Twinkle, twinkle little star
|1 2 3 1 |1 2 3 1 | Frere Jacques
...
Compared to the standard notation, the numbered notation is very compact for just the melody line. It is even possible to transcribe music in between the lines of text. Transcribing harmony can be done by vertically stacking the notes, but the advantage of compactness decreases as the harmony becomes more complex. The standard notation, with its graphical notation, is better in representing the duration and timing among multiple notes.
BB with this feature could be a hit in the huge China market.
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Quote:
BB with this feature could be a hit in the huge China market.
http://tripatlas.com/Numbered_musical_notation
Wow, I didn't realize that there is a musical culture that is THAT substantial associated with this notation. It feels good to be less alone in this......hopefully this puts it on the radar permanently for the developers of BIAB 2009.
Last edited by astrummer; 06/09/08 06:06 PM.
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P.S. Even though I think a strong case has now been made for including this ( mainly by others who are real musicians rather than this hobbyist ), if you would like to see it as well, please throw a post of support.....
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Just imagine how easy and very fast it is to enter song with numbers instead of positioning note heads on ledger lines.
|1· 1· |1 23· | Row, row, row your boat
|1 1 5 5 |6 6 5 - | Twinkle, twinkle little star
|1 2 3 1 |1 2 3 1 | Frere Jacques
|5 3 5 - | 5 3 5 - | Barney "I Love You" (aka This Old Man)
Some advantages are :
1. Users do not need to know keys to start writing tunes for any voice range. Tunes written can be played back in any keys.
2. All tunes can be indexed and searched by their number pattern as can be seen above few examples.
3. Printed song sheets can be very compact without any ledger lines.
4. Basically all musics are patterns of notes which can be notated in numbers for fast analysis and learning. eg. notes in 1-3-5 pattern is root major chord.
BiaB is soon going into version 18 (or 2009). This feature could give a big break into the China region market as this number notation system is commonly used there.
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PG should re-look into this old request which will add BIG value to BIAB's midi capabilities and markets, especially in China. A big advantage of this Notation system is All tunes can be indexed and searched by their musical number pattern. "An index using the numbered notation allows us to find a song if we remember the tune but not the name. To appreciate that, we can look at an example. A children's song book may have an index like this: |1· 1· |1 23· | Row, row, row your boat |1 1 5 5 |6 6 5 - | Twinkle, twinkle little star |1 2 3 1 |1 2 3 1 | Frere Jacques" Quoted from an "old" website: http://tripatlas.com/Numbered_musical_notationand also found on this Wiki page . Some Jazz standards can be found at The Rousseau Music Book and read the original 1742 explanation of this notation systems by Jean-Jacques Rousseau.
Last edited by Michael Khor; 12/15/09 06:05 AM.
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A bump of this old suggestion that bring music notation to the masses (compared to the graphical visual nature standard notation). Now there is even an iPad version to play in Numbered musical notation at http://normanschmidt.net/RousseauMusicPad/Checked out a great collections of Jazz standards written in simple key neutral number notation at http://normanschmidt.net/leadsheets.php
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